“Wah, it’s hard”. It’s supposed to be hard.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AmericanNationalist, Jul 29, 2024.

  1. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    A little political history is in order: Back in the age of feudalism and a key element of the American revolution was the fact that it was obnoxiously easy to not only prosecute would be political opponents or any voice of dissent for that matter but non-political persons and journalists were not spared either.

    We have our own examples of falling down this rabbit hole: The Sedition Act of 1916(Still in effect BTW). As well as the overturned Korematsu and infamously the arrest of Dr.King in Birmingham.

    So the framers wrote not only the 4th and 5th Amendments but also the clause assuring an appointed legal counsel as bulwarks against historical abuses by the King of England.

    Flash forward to today’s society and things have gone horribly wrong in the judicial system. Judges, by virtue of being former prosecutors are more or less lenient(if not outright favorable) to their prosecuting colleagues). The rules which are supposed to govern over the trials are written by….You guessed it: Lawyers.

    It’s the worst kind of circular reasoning, and it makes a legal defense incredibly difficult. So what kind of environment can manifest with these circumstances?

    Plea deals! Lots and lots of plea deals. Attorneys get richer, clients get various degrees of being screwed over and the prison pipeline explodes! And this is how the US has the most people incarcerated per population in the entire world.

    But there’s one more thing that has manifested itself: Prosecutorial Entitlement. A key example of this was in the limbo documents case. The 11th circuit has been quite busy, and one of the early involvements was around the Masters(You know that which the judge granted IN PART but the prosecution argued wasn’t necessary at all, but in written arguments suggested they could live with it before the public smear against Judge Cannon began).

    At the time the 11th ruled in favor of the government, essentially arguing “when in doubt” to lean towards the government(The Masters for his part, made the same argument).

    We would later learn a couple of months ago that opps: The government wasn’t keeping as close of a watch on those documents as thought. Which an independent review say I don’t know, a Masters would have helped with.

    The point being, none of that would have interfered with the government’s case, or with the ability to successfully prosecute the case. If anything it would have sped it along.

    But in today’s legal field: Prosecutorial Entitlement meant that a balanced view of the situation be damned. The prosecutor represents the “government”, and the government is representative of Justice.

    The furthest thing from our founding possible. If we as citizens don’t argue against this and accept the current state of our judiciary system we could find a 21st century version of the Salem Witch Hunt.


    There must be a reform where prosecutors acknowledge the reality that prosecuting and winning cases is hard AF and it’s expected to be hard.

    I invite everyone on the Left and Right to discuss how we can restore a sense of difficulty to the Courtroom and prosecuting profession.
     
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  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And if you don't take a plea deal it is like the state is then vindictive against you because you actually made them do their job and now they threaten to give you the maximum penalty because they're pissed off that you made them work
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with you, we have bad cops that do not respect our 4th and 5th Amendments, even some DAs and Judges

    but if someone like Stormy's lawyer is committing crimes, the and the Trump FBI catches them, that is not political, that is shining light on yourself and someone is gonna notice the crimes
     
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  4. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    First and foremost....get rid of the plea deal system completely. Too easy to sit there and browbeat until a person is exhausted of the process and finally gives up just agreeing to whatever.

    We also need to reform State provided public defenders. Not really sure how to do this. But too often they're just there to make dollars or accomplish getting some experience under their belt so they can move on to bigger better paying jobs. They're not "in it" for the person needing defended. Perhaps better pay with an incentive bonus for winning the case? It would have to be on par with private practices.

    And cops being able to lie should also be stopped.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2024
  5. Shutcie

    Shutcie Well-Known Member Donor

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    The plea deal has proven an effective tool in keeping the court system moving. Prosecutors like it because they don't have to risk a trial or worry about the time and expense. Defendents like it because it inevitably gets them a lower charge and a lower sentence.

    The quip about cops lying is uncalled for.
    Cops are trained that to lie is to not only endanger whatever case is at hand, but you're selling your reputation and credibility and that is never a good place to get to.
    If only politicians learned that.
    So yes, there are cops who lie, even to the point of convicting innocent people.
    But it is far less prevalent than lying politicians.
    And has far less impact.
     
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its better that 10 guilty go free than one innocent be imprisonned.

    Generally people all agree with this.

    ...until they are the victim, or someone they don't like goes free. That's apparently when they stop being able to sympathize with those who are unjustly persecuted by a police state.

    And that's how we get a police state.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2024
  7. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Oh it has most definitely been an effective tool to keep the court system "moving". But our court system was never meant to "move". Its meant to determine guilt or non-guilt and mete out Justice. And getting a lower charge or sentence circumvents Justice. And do we really want a Justice system that is based on blackmail/bribery?

    It was no quip. And it happens all the time. And if you get a confession, there is no danger to a case. There isn't even any danger to a case without the lying. Unless its done in a courtroom or to lie about evidence to the DA or judge. Lying to the defendant however doesn't endanger the case except in rare cases (entrapment).
     
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  8. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    And good luck getting a court to actually agree that it’s entrapment and thereby illegal. As a result, the FBI/DHS can pull dangerous stunts like the Portland fertilizer bomber or recently the Gretchen incident.

    These incidents should have resulted in a congressional inquiry and I’d love to ask them one basic question: What would you have done if the fertilizer bomb actually went off?

    Like, how would they apologize to X victims here for something entirely preventable
     
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  9. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member Donor

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    I hope the Supreme Court declares Trump immune and America returns to feudalism.
     

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