2 cheerleaders were shot in a Texas supermarket parking lot

the vast majority of gun deaths are from suicides. not a public safety or crime issue
then there is about 12K in murders a year-80% or so are felons killing other mopes or close associates of felons. Throw in people with serious juvenile records, it leaves about 2500 or so murders by people with records that had not yet disqualified them from owning guns, though you do find high levels of substance abuse, DV etc. divide those deaths by the 100 million gun owners and yes, its a rather small problem

 

The death rate is not a 'small' problem, especial as children form so many of the victims. However for the purposes of this debate that hardly matters. At this point you seem to be basically conceding that little if anything significant can be done to reduce the death toll so all that's left is to just minimize the seriousness of the problem. Presumably that's comforting, but as I keep saying what else is there to do?

 

children don't form that many victims when you realize that most of the children who are murdered are those in their late teens involved in criminal activity. I tire (and I am not saying you are responsible) of people using the deaths of children to try to disarm lawful Americans.

BBL in about 12 hours

 

What is not working are the weak gun laws in typical red states. Facts, my friend.

 

I hear you. Bottom line still is that typical red states with weak gun laws got high homicide rates.
Career criminals from from say Baltimore and Chicago often enough get their guns from such states.

In the end, there is no such thing as a life will come with a guarantee that no criminal harm will be inflicted on it. But the US can do better than this, within the current constitution. Currently nothing is standing in the way (except ill will) of the states with the highest homicide rate to implement the toughest gun laws from other states.

 

This is also about easy access to the means to commit a crime. And states with weak gun laws score high on the homicide rate.

 

There is an entire thread about how weak gun laws in typical red states typical end up high on what states has the highest homicide rate. And private sale without a background check is part of weak gun laws. So I don't know how you can claim there is no evidence when the facts are like that.

 

I know it exists. I also know there is no custom office to prohibit the transfer of firearms across state lines. I also know that if there is no probable cause, that cops may not search a vehicle crossing state line to see if it is transferring firearms.

So you got a law, that is not enforceable. It is not as if you did not know this, so it's just stupid to bring it up and think I would fall for it.

 

The complaint is that criminals can just buy their firearms in states with weak laws, because there are obvious loops in place that people are allowed to legally sell them to them. And it's not much of an effort for them to than commit the crime in Chicago with it. In fact, this is what is happening on a large scale. Those are the facts.

 

The vid shows that even when you completely file off the entire number, that they can still restore it. Do note, the restore number is freaking crystal clear as if it never was filed off at all. Your idea now to "remove the underlying compressed material" means drilling out the metal entirely where the stamp was at.

I seriously doubt people would think the firearm with such a hole in it, is safe to use.

 

Sorry, while I agree (completely) with your sentiment I have seen every attempt to date by various State and Federal Governments to reform gun laws shot down in flames by the Supreme Court. At this stage without constitutional reform I literally see no way the situation is going to change. The issue is career criminals aren't the main problem. Even if you waved a magic wand and made every violent criminal in the US disappear overnight it wouldn't make a dent in the number of people killed or injured every year by domestic violence crimes, accidental shootings or suicides.

 

I looked at numbers.
Louisiana got a homicide rate of 15.8 per 100,000. Missouri is at 11.8. Mississippi and Arkansas are at 10.6. South Carolina is at 10.5
California is at 5.6. The average is 6.6

So you know.... there is something to be said where red states with weak gun laws are at and how they are closer (or above) to being twice as deadly compared to national average. They show that having easier and easier access to firearms is totally not working, but it is what the firearm enthusiasts want with disregard to the facts.

 

and your definition of working is harassing honest gun owners.

 

felons cause at least 80% of the murders. that would remove about 9500 of the 12-13K murders by gunshot each year. accidental shootings is a low number and has steadily decreased. You do have a point about suicide but that is not a public safety issue

 

the real homicide capitals are Democrat run blue cities-often ones that have their own restrictive gun laws like DC, Chicago and NYC-all of which essentially banned handguns for years

 

That's just your dumb opinion, while the majority want what I propose being tougher gun laws.

 

I already responded to this that Chicago and Baltimore suffer from the weapons criminals can just buy from red states with their weak gun laws.
And the power to do something with firearms is done at state level within the US federal constitution, and not from within individual cities.

 

Dude, again, scooping out the underlying material is what I'm telling you happens.
You often solder new material down on it too.

You realize that literally people buy 'destroyed' parts kits of old AKs (for example) which have their receivers cut into 3 pieces and just reweld the ****ers?

 

"TIME TO TROT OUT 'THE CHILDREN', AGAIN"

I agree that America's homicide rate is a significant problem but as soon as someone trots out "the children" in a gun control discussion, it means that they must resort to emotional appeal because the facts and rational thought are against their arguments.

It's simple. A determined killer will find a way to kill either his target or a large group of people with or without a gun and no gun law, existing or proposed is going to stop him.

An example of failed gun control laws that I have cited frequently took place in New York City where the killer couldn't find a gun to kill his ex girlfriend. Instead, he made a crude WMD that required only one dollar's worth of gasoline and succeeded in killing 86 people plus his ex girlfriend.

I think that it is noteworthy that more people died from that $1.00 than any mass shooting with any "assault weapon" or other type of firearm:

"Happy Land fire"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline. He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.

Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED

_____________________________________________________________

All @Turtledude did was to present the hard truth in a rational manner that put America's homicide rate in perspective.
After all, if one is serious about solving any problem, its parts must examined openly and honestly.

It is a simple fact that the vast majority of firearm related deaths are from suicides, not school shootings, random killings or other things beyond our control.
It is also a fact that there are about 12,000 gun related murders per year but, here too, most killings are criminals killing other criminals.

To put these 12,000 deaths into perspective, the leading causes of death in America are heart disease (700,000 deaths per year), cancer (608,000 deaths per year) and 250,000 deaths from medical errors(1). We don't hear about these other deaths because our Western MSM has an egregious anti gun bias that constantly panders to the anti gun lobby.

Re:

Generally, people who support additional gun control laws see incremental gun confiscation as the only solution to America's suicide, homicide and accidental gun death rate.

Genuinely effect measures are not so cheap and easy as passing even more feel-good-do-nothing gun laws. There are things that we can do but I will only name 3 for now.

1. Upgrade our mental health care system to be able to detect, treat and monitor violent individuals before they become killers or mass killers.

2. Learn from the Israelis when it comes to securing our schools(2).

3. Finally, we should do what has not been done and that is to strictly enforce the numerous existing gun laws.

The things I've suggested will be neither cheap nor easy but things that work never are.

Thanks,



(1). "Medical Errors Are Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S."
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...rs-are-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-us

EXCERPT "MEDICAL ERRORS ARE THE third leading cause of death in the U.S., after heart disease and cancer, causing at least 250,000 deaths every year, according to an analysis out Tuesday indicating that patient safety efforts fall far short.

"People don't just die from heart attacks and bacteria, they die from system-wide failings and poorly coordinated care," says the study's lead author, Dr. Martin Makary, a professor of surgery and health policy at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. "It's medical care gone awry."CONTINUED


(2) "What if American Schools Were Protected Like Israeli Schools?"
https://www.newsweek.com/what-if-am...rotected-like-israeli-schools-opinion-1712864

EXCERPTS "After the Ma'alot Massacre (1974), Israel put into place a nationwide system to fortify and protect all schools of 100 students or more. There have been no other school shootings in Israel since then.

The first thing the country did after the Ma'alot Massacre was to make certain that each school had a perimeter barrier and guarded entry points. This in itself makes a school an unattractive target for a deranged would-be murderer." CONTINUED

 

That would include drilling all the way through the metal where the serial number is at.

You realize that no law is going to ever prohibit crime? There is no freaking guarantee to anything. There is however a massive difference between doing nothing, doing a bit, doing a lot, and going full at it.

I've pointed out that red states with weak gun laws got a high homicide rate.
It proves that doing a bit is a joke and is not helping jack all.


You need a lot of skill to go drill a gap into a firearm and than patch it back up so the firearm remains safe to use. Your random hobo or kid trying to do an armed robbery on a local liquor store won't be able to pull it off.

 

The data that I have seen, shows that less than one percent of crimes involving guns can be traced to private sales.

 

And? Do you want to get caught or not?

You realize that all your little law does is make it harder on the law abiding?
You're doing something to do something, not because its effective.

Sure keep telling yourself that.
You've yet to prove what you want will cause any change.

lol no you do not. Its not rocket science man. Melt the **** onto it gradually and smoothly.


You don't give a gun you bought to someone who is a crash test dummy for commission of a crime. No one is that stupid. If you do, you report it stolen. Who stole it? Someone who doesn't look like who you sold it to, or who you never saw.
This isn't complicated stuff.

 

That could be because of the criminalistic Democrats in those states. As well as the reason that Democrat states need stricter gun laws. Democrats bring ruination. Look at the Democrat cities like Chicago, New York, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Jacksonville. The bottom line is that Americans have a God given Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. And it's up to each state as to how best to regulate that right while maintaining it and not snuff it out entirely.

 

most want it based either of being deluded into thinking it will reduce crime but most want it to harass lawful gun owners.

 

I do not agree that welding a gun back together is a common skill.

Oh is it?
The states with the highest homicide ratings are typical red states with weak gun laws. There is an entire thread about it.