5 Iran tankers sailing to Venezuela amid US pressure tactics

Discussion in 'United States' started by Iranian Monitor, May 17, 2020.

  1. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I noticed you glossed right over the state-sponsored terrorism, and the nuclear weapons.

    Noted.
     
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Venezuela has the world's largest proven oil reserves, totaling 302,81 billion barrels.
    If they have a shortage of fuel, it's because of their own mismanagement
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of whether they have or have not the largest proven oil reserves, oil reserves aren't the same as usable fuel.
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Because of internal mismanagement. Venezuela, at one time, produced oil hand over fist.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    There are certain chemicals and certain technical expertise for gasoline production, which Venezuela had relied on foreign supplies previously. They also used to swap oil for gasoline, which they aren't able to do now due to US sanctions. Iran is helping them get over this issue.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-help-restart-refinery-official-idUSKCN2253FX
    Venezuela receives material from Iran to help restart refinery -official
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-iran-for-fuel-supplies-workers-amid-shortage
    Venezuela Turns to Iran for Fuel Supplies and Workers
     
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    From your source:
    Venezuela is suffering from an acute shortage of motor fuel due to the near total collapse of its 1.3-million-barrels-per-day refining network after years of underinvestment and lack of maintenance, as well as the U.S. sanctions that have complicated crude-for-gasoline swaps.

    Looks to me like the mismanagement problem was in place before US sanctions.
     
  7. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Socialist incompetence doesn't convert oil to fuel?

    Huh, Whaddya know?
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    And 15 years or more of US sanctions.
     
  9. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Sanctions had very little to to with the demise of Venezuela's oil industry.

    The biggest problem was nationalization(read: socialism) of the oil industry, Chavez seized the means of oil production(again read: socialism) away from the corporations that had been efficiently and successfully running the oil production facilities at a profit, and sharing a generous portion of the profit with Venezuela. Chavez then rewarded his political cronies with the cushy jobs of running the oil production industry. Those cronies were, of course, totally incompetent, and their greed and corruption produced the expected results; less efficiency lower production, lower profits.

    Far from killing Venezuela's oil industry with sanctions, America was actually the biggest consumer of Venezuela's oil, and the "salad days" of Venezuela's socialism were financed by the profits made by selling oil to America. Venezuela was also highly-dependant upon America, because America is where the very few of the world's advanced refineries were located that could process Venezuela's crappy, sulfery oil and turn it into usable fuel.

    Then the second biggest problem for Venezuela's oil industry came about- fracking. America went ham on fracking, and was soon producing lots of domestic fuel in order to meet their own energy needs, and this lowered demand for foreign energy supplies, and that drove oil prices way down, and then Venezuela was well and truly fracked.

    The oil industry was their golden goose, and oil profits were the piggy bank which they kept raiding for the funds to build and prop up their socialist house of cards. Fracking killed the golden goose, the piggy bank was empty, and the house of cards collapsed.

    And they all lived happily ever after.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is nonsensical to say that US sanctions had no effect on Venezuela's economy including its oil industry, but that's where many US observers are, in the world of propaganda nonsense.
     
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  11. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Sanctions had very little to do with the demise of Venezuela's oil industry, and every economist who has taken an honest look at the history of Venezuela's oil industry nationalization disaster agrees with this, because it's clearly obvious to anybody who takes a look that Venezuela's golden oil goose was cooked long before any sanctions were put in place.

    Socialism doomed Venezuela's oil industry, and then fracking double damned it. Sanctions were the icing on the turd cake.

    As far as sanctions hurting Venezuela's economy, yup, the sanctions threw a little bit of insult on top of the heap of socialist failure injury.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's what you say, right in line with the official propaganda in DC.

    I don't believe a word of it.
     
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  13. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I led you to the water, but your have every right not to drink it.

    Stay thirsty, my friend.

    image2.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you.

    Rubio, Abrams, Pompeo and Trump led you to the water, and you're still drinking it. That Guaido was given a standing ovation by the US Congress a few months back shows how deeply the US is into regime change. Yeah Baby, Johnny Appleseed of "democracy" R' US.
     
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  15. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I oppose regime change.

    May Maduro reign for 1000 years.

    He's the leader Venezuela deserves.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I don't even get this debate. Obviously, since Venezuela's oil industry was run by American and foreign companies, they didn't have as much experience to run it themselves. In the short run, they wouldn't have been running it all that 'efficiently'. Add to that the US measures against Venezuela, with sanctions coming on top of it, their oil industry suffered. This has nothing much to do with being a socialist or capitalist economy. It is like saying if you lived in a capitalist system but suddenly take over a factory which someone else had built on your property, but whose lease of the factory had run out and you didn't want to have them continue running the factory, the fact that you may not quite t know how to run the factory efficiently for a while (until you learn), that is because you are living in a capitalist system.

    Overall, the US needs to mind its own affairs and stop interfering with how others run their affairs.
     
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  17. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Venezuela's oil production was being run very efficiently by some of the biggest and best in the business, and they were raking in big profits, then Chavez "expropriated"(cut out the experts nearly completely, and replaced them with his own cronies)the industry, and it was all downward after that.

    https___blogs-images.forbes.com_rrapier_files_2019_01_Venezuelan-Oil-Production-Through-2018.jpg

    The learning curve you said would happen never happened.
    I agree. Maduro is the perfect leader for Venezuela, and the status quo is perfectly fine as it is right now in Venezuela. We should just leave well enough alone.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would be good to see the US do that but those days are changed. If I am not mistaken you have a few years on you so are likely to miss the hell your people will be going through.
    The US should look to its own actions both its State terrorism and its support of terrorism pretty much world wide. It should also look at its continuous support for the defying of international law - the very thing which gives rise to the 'terrorism' you are complaining about.
     
  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well then quit reneging on International Treaties which are made with Iran and quit bullying the world into sanctions against Iran.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What the heck are you talking about. You could not bully Iran more if you wanted to. You have tried to create civil war in the country. You have tired to regime a cult into office. You refuse to allow them even medicine hence killing their children and other sick civilians.Don't like Hezbollah fighting your AL Qaeda and ISIS friends eh?
     
  21. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    And Gaza
     
  22. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Evil governments like Iran and Venezuela work together. We saw this in WW II with the Axis.
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Evil governments like US, Israeli and British also work together, like June 1967 with the USS Liberty.
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    As I posted elsewhere, the first of the five tankers from Iran has arrived in Venezuela. The rest are expected to arrive within the next couple of days.

    Iran and Venezuela had excellent relations when Ahmadinejad was Iran's president -- and Venezuela was led by Chavez. During that time, Iran established a joint venture auto manufacturing plant producing cars; a cement factory; build thousands of housing units and both countries inked many more deals. After the death of Chavez, and after Rouhani was elected Iran's president, relations between the two sides became diplomatically cordial but otherwise very low key. Most of the projects were either discontinued or never received the necessary support and funding from either side. In Venezuela, the Maduro government was led to imagine that if Venezuela relied more on Russia and China, and kept a low profile in its relations with Iran, the US would leave him alone. In Iran, the Rouhani administration was focused on trade and commerce with Europe and European multinationals and didn't have much interest in Venezuela either.

    But in the past couple of years, it has become clear that (a) relying on China and Russia isn't going to be the answer for those who find themselves in America's cross-hairs. China and Russia, supposedly allied of Maduro who have been vocal in the diplomatic arena in resisting the moves by the US to oust him, have nonetheless bowed to American pressures. The Chinese stopped giving Venezuela loans. The Russians have stopped providing Venezuela gasoline/fuel and related items. The next lesson (b) you want to successfully resist US pressures, you need to find ways to operate in an alternative economic setting. The global economic order is dominated by the US and company and everyone operating under its dictates is ultimately going to prove too feeble to resist bowing to it.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  25. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you have any idea what this planet would be like without the U.S. and U.K.? Can you imagine what we would be doing if the Axis won WW II? Or if the Soviets won the Cold War?

    The evil would be beyond our imagination.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020

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