9/11: What really happened on that day? (continued)

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Sep 2, 2016.

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  1. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That's true, it's impossible to prove a negative. However one must prove a positive or it is no more than conjecture/theory and NOT FACT. The US government claims 4 specific airplanes (AA77, UA93, UA175 and AA11) were hijacked on 9/11 and all 4 crashed. They even claim to have recovered some parts and RFDs from the 4 planes. So where's the "plenty of proof" that the recovered parts actually belonged to the claimed 4 planes? They have the parts (so they claim) and some RFDs and it is an industry standard that they all have serial numbers that are documented and logged as physically belonging to the planes, but they haven't produced the match of ANY of the serial numbers to the logs. This is HARD EVIDENCE, evidence that's a key part of any forensic investigation into any airplane crash. It's the one of the easiest and most definitive ways to match parts to airplane. It's a match that the US government should readily and confidently publish as its "plenty of proof" to avoid any controversy, but the match is non-existent. This is as basic as it gets. Without that, the "plenty of proof" claim is no more than vaporware.

    Similarly, there is no legitimate "plenty of proof" claim for the OCT's claim that fires/planes or both completely leveled 3 high rises on 9/11. A scam investigation does not qualify as "plenty of proof".

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/458597-nist-9-11-scam-exposed-all-its-glory.html

    Sorry, there's not "plenty of proof", there's no proof at all to the government's OCT claim. There can't be anyway since there never was any legitimate official investigation into 9/11. What we do have plenty of proof of is that the official 9/11 investigations were all frauds. That proof is overwhelming.
     
  2. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    http://physics911.net/georgenelson/
    (excerpt)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft — and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. This is because every military and civilian passenger-carrying aircraft have many parts that are identified for safety of flight. That is, if any of the parts were to fail at any time during a flight, the failure would likely result in the catastrophic loss of aircraft and passengers. Consequently, these parts are individually controlled by a distinctive serial number and tracked by a records section of the maintenance operation and by another section called plans and scheduling.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Absurd.. The staging would have required more conspirators than a DeMille epic.
     
    usda_select likes this.
  4. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    That wouldn't have made it impossible. If someone tries to come forward, he'll be risking his life.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=9/11+mysterious+deaths

    The press wouldn't report it.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=401955&page=5&p=1066548138#post1066548138


    The proof that the government did it is crushing.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=456423&p=1066183060#post1066183060

    The argument that too many people would have been involved doesn't make that proof go away.
     
  5. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    I certainly agree that it's devoid of detail, but perhaps we could coax him to elaborate on his times as an alleged truther. As to your claim that it's not credible based on his posts, I haven't reached that conclusion. He posts based on what he believes -now-, but people's beliefs can change over time. I would say that most of the time, the belief goes the other way, that is, those who believe the official story come to disbelieve it later on. I was such a case, so was David Ray Griffin, Richard Gage, Steven Jones, and many others. As a matter of fact, I think there are very few people who -initially- disbelieved the official story concerning 9/11.

    Perhaps he will when he sees our conversation on the matter.

    It can be much easier to buy into fiction if a lot of others also believe in said fiction.

    His true position being that he believes the OCT?

    I think that this may be your greatest flaw in your discussion tactics. You -assume- that they are not telling you what they truly believe, and I think that just messes things up. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I harbour doubts as to their believes, but I tend to assume the other way around- that what they are telling me is what they truly believe. So I then try to deconstruct why they believe what they do. I go over the points, always trying to figure out why they still hold to their positions. Sometimes, I think I actually make some progress. But it can take quite a while. I've had much better luck with people I know in person, probably because they know me personally and so trust my judgement more. When it comes to these types of things, trust is a very important thing.

    I'm sure you're aware that I'm the one who named the original thread, laugh :). I worded it this way because I wanted both sides of the debate to try to come to an agreement as to what really happened on 9/11. Not a task that is easily accomplished, but given enough time, I think we can reach that agreement.
     
  6. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    citation needed,

    massive BS post
     
  7. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Google search: GHW Bush, Bin Laden's 9/11 Carlisle Group. Plenty of evidence that Bush and Bin Laden family have been in bed together for decades and were involved in meetings to create a war services company on 9/10/01.
     
  8. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    No there is not and that is not a citation it is a bull(*)(*)(*)(*) claim which you cannot support with evidence
     
  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    That is purely BS.. The Bin Laden family is legit and don't give a rat's behind about Bush.. That's more low brow conspiracy theories from nincompoops who don't know the history or the oil business or the Bin Ladens.
     
  10. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is plenty of evidence that the Bin Laden's and the Bush's have had dealings for decades going back to Harken oil and up to the day before 9/11/01 with the war services company known as the Carlisle group. Look it up champ. The record is clear.
     
  11. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Bush family also pose themselves as legit. However there is no question about their dealings which date back to Harken Energy in Texas and GHW Bush, along with two of the Bin Laden's were involved in the Carlisle Group which met on 9/10/01 in Lower Manhattan. This is not a conspiracy theory Margot, just fact. I find it interesting that this mega war profiteering company that was formed by former GHW Bush staffers like Jim Baker, Frank Carlucci and GHW Bush himself along with members of the Bin Laden family got real lucky and war broke out all over the Middle East.....Cheers
     
  12. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    That is interpretive speculation sport.

    Even if true none of it supports your specific claims about GH Buch on 911 which is an outright fabrication like all of the conspiracy claims.

    You need to provide evidence and YOU CANNOT
     
  13. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not a prosecutor champ. I do not need to provide anything. I am simply relaying information regarding the long standing relationship between the Bush's and the Bin Laden's. I find it interesting that GHW Bush and several of his cohorts were negotiating a huge war services deal involving the Bin Laden family right before we were attacked by a group headed by a Bin Laden which was the catalyst for decades long wars which they no doubt profited from. I guess they are all just lucky guys. Cheers
     
  14. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes you do need to prove it kiddoe. You are making a silly accusation without a speck of evidence and the burden is on you to prove it.or you admit to lying
     
  15. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No lying at all champ. What I have asserted is all true and easily verifiable. This is not a court of law but rather an Internet discussion forum. Anyone who wants to verify the information can easily access it by simply googling: GHW Bush/Carlisle Group/Bin Laden/911. Several credible sources are available to back up my assertions. Good luck in your search for the truth.
     
  16. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    No they are not and it is a false claim you made.

    You need to prove it,

    Yes you are lying kiddoe
     
  17. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What claim have I made which is false? We all know who is lying here champ. You, as usual.
     
  18. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    You know precisely which claim I asked for a citation and you ran like a total dishonest coward. You cannot provide any evidence so run back to school and stop posting with the grownups
     
  19. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    You have never presented a speck of evidence that the official investigations are frauds.

    The popular mechanics investigation was evidence based and you cannot present any evidence of any sort to refute it.

    There never was an OCT and in fact the so called official story is crushingly proven by evidence.

    You have never presented any evidence here or in any other thread..

    Every claim you have made is unsupported opinion and conjecture and you have never posted anything with evidence or supporting facts

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is no proof and too many people would have known.

    That is what you never address and always defeats all of your fictional argument. No sch large group of people has ever or ever can keep such a secret period and death threats do not alter that fact.

    The press would report it and there is no proof whatsoever that the government did it.

    The evidence crushes your claims
     
  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    It's not my concern. It may be of some interest but compared to the 9/11 event and all its ramifications, it's pretty irrelevant, to me anyway.

    I've never heard of anyone claiming they didn't believe the US government on 9/11 but now believe it to the point where they defend the OCT and the storytellers to his level of fanaticism ... other than his claim. I don't buy it or him.

    That's his call, I don't care either way.

    It's more his agenda than what he claims he believes.

    Not for me, flaw or not, I see them as disingenuous and mostly irrelevant. Their only relevance is to bring up issues that may be worthy of discussion.

    Exactly.

    I understand but there's only 2 possibilities, that what REALLY happened is the US government's OCT or it isn't. What's the point in OCT defenders parroting the OCT as to what REALLY happened?

    You believe these posters are for real, I don't. For me an example of a truly genuine poster is one who believes the OCT for the most part but has some significant questions, rather than defends it religiously. That person can be educated, the other is a waste of time.
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    See phoenyx, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about, nothing more than fanatical vaporware and a complete waste of time.
     
  22. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know that I did provide sources for all of the assertions I have made regarding the Bush's and the Bin Laden's. It can be easily accessed by going to any search engine and entering: Bush/Bin Laden/911/Carlyle Group. You are the liar and the coward who can not dispute the facts I have posted. You are not very good at whatever you are trying to do here. Total and transparent failure.
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not really. Most of it was already in place. Towers and WTC7 prepared months in advance. Tower tenants were warned the weekend before that power to the towers would be turned off, and to back up data and computer systems as required.

    The training exercise Vigilant Guardian was in place and led to military controllers questioning civilian controllers "is this real life or exercise" by early morning. Dozens of otherwise innocent traffic controllers became unwitting pawns in the game.

    The pentagon charges were in place.
     
  24. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    No you did not you stated do a google search which is not a source.

    I asked for a citation you provided no such thing making your claim an outright and proven lie,

    You have posted no facts you have posted baseless assertions.

    facts require evidence boy and you have no evidence to back up your idiotic assertions now run along
     
  25. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the WTC was attacked by a secret satellite that hides behind the moon.

    this satellite shot extra strong microwaves at the WTC, causing it to melt.
     

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