9/11CON - The Pentagon

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Mar 19, 2022.

You are viewing posts in the Conspiracy Theory forum. PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening.

  1. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Explain exactly where it should be and why.

    Spam already addressed. Are you under some sort of strange impression that planes have serial numbers logged for parts fitted? Are you under the illusion that the plane wasn't smashed into tiny pieces from the collision?

    Address the big list quoted in post #346. Do you seriously think the ludicrous list is preferable to just crashing the damn plane, witnessed by dozens of people?
     
  2. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This guy seems to be an expert and he says that is indeed the case.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/197763
    (excerpt)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Scientific and reasoned deductions are permitted only after an exhaustive search and analysis of physical evidence has been completed. Hundreds of parts from each of those four aircraft are critical for safety of flight, and as such, must be meticulously controlled by only one-of-a-kind, dedicated, serial numbers. These parts are required by FAA regulations to be tracked and removed and replaced at a designated number of flying hours or a number of actual cycles. Just like the toughness of black boxes, these components are virtually indestructible and relatively easy to find among the crash wreckage. Each of the aircraft would have two engines that are nine feet in diameter, and would have had many of the critical, serialized parts installed. Several sets of massive landing gears would have been easy to find and identify, and each of these parts would have been linked to one, and only one aircraft in the world.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/9-11con-the-pentagon.598106/page-3#post-1074216313
    (excerpt)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When these parts are installed, their serial numbers are married to the aircraft registration numbers in the aircraft records and the plans and scheduling section will notify maintenance specialists when the parts must be replaced. If the parts are not replaced within specified time or cycle limits, the airplane will normally be grounded until the maintenance action is completed. Most of these time-change parts, whether hydraulic flight surface actuators , pumps, landing gears, engines or engine components, are virtually indestructible. It would be impossible for an ordinary fire resulting from an airplane crash to destroy or obliterate all of those critical time-change parts or their serial numbers. I repeat, impossible.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


    https://www.ff911truth.org/col-george-nelson
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Navy Corpsman likes this.
  3. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He is quite correct, hundreds of parts are logged. There are MILLIONS of plane parts on a 757!

    Which part of the "smashed into tiny fragments" confused you?

    False. Only extremely uninformed people with a tendency for batshit conspiracies would conclude that. Where is the rationale in this list below? Explain why all of a sudden the witnesses testifying to a plane don't count!? I find it just a touch NOT "unbiased / rational" that you laud the testimony of April frickin' Gallop!

    In science there is a level of evidence that is acceptable as proof, in some things it's hard to come by. In life experiences, it takes the form of a number of things:
    • Witness testimony - for the Pentagon crash there is a considerable number of accounts confirming a plane, a 757 and the provider American Airlines.
    • Air Traffic Control - monitored the take-off of the flight and noted its later activity prior to crashing.
    • National Guard - a plane spotted the inbound flight and subsequent crash.
    • Security camera footage - though blurred, significant factors in the image demonstrate the exact shape expected.
    • Lamp posts - knocked over during the approach, including an impact with a taxi on the highway prior to crash.
    • Passengers and staff - DNA identified many onboard.
    • Black boxes - recovered.
    • Phone calls - 2 calls received from the plane.
    • Plane pieces - strewn all over the Pentagon lawn, mangled and burnt deep into the building.
    This was a scheduled flight that strayed off course, pilot contact lost. observed into its target after a hijack. To say there is no proof of this is basically ridiculous. Now, what would NO PLANE entail, previously posted and no serious response made:
    • Now we have to involve countless numbers of people to dispose of the actual plane!
    • Burn it up and distribute parts all around the lawn and building!
    • We have to fabricate the ATC involvement.
    • We have to coerce all the eye-witnesses.
    • We have to have explosions to knock out lamp posts etc.
    • We have to fabricate the National Guard plane witness accounts.
    • We have to involve a team to blow up the building/launch the missile/other plane whichever batshit alternative is suggested!
    • Now we have to dispose / murder all the passengers, dismember some of them and scatter their DNA all over the crash site!
    • How many to get all the luggage and scatter this around the area?
    • Now we have to get actual passengers to fabricate(really!) their audio transcripts and phone calls!
    • We have to fabricate the black box data and/or coerce the analysts who view it.
    I like logic, I like critical thinking, I like simplicity. What I don't like is insane claims requiring ludicrous numbers of people and tasks, when you just need to crash the damn plane!

    The "shadow" - explain where it should be and why!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  4. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Please address this which is from my last post.
     
  5. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is quite correct in terms of the effects of a fire on these parts. What is your point? Did you really not understand what a 500mph impact does to these "virtually" indestructible parts? They weren't "damaged" by the damn fire! Large parts were recovered from the 757, including the black box.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now you!!
    • Where should this "shadow" be and why!?
    • Explain why all of a sudden the witnesses testifying to a plane don't count!? I find it just a touch NOT "unbiased / rational" that you laud the testimony of April frickin' Gallop!
    • What crazy world of "rational/unbiased" do you look at this list quoted below and arm-wave it away!?

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  6. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Should I trust you, or that expert? I trust the expert.

    I think this guy's argument is that there aren't any plane parts that can be traced to the plane that was flight 77.

    https://physics-911.com/georgenelson/
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. The hard evidence would have included hundreds of critical time-change aircraft items,
    -----------------------------------------------------------


    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/197763
    (excerpt)
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    The well-known "Black Boxes" were reported to have been found, but were immediately confiscated and seem to have since, disappeared.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    What's the official story on the black boxes?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
    Navy Corpsman likes this.
  7. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Scott WHY ARE YOU EVADING MY POSTS/QUESTIONS?

    Your "expert" isn't saying much that I dispute! How many crash investigations did he cover where the pilot deliberately rammed the plane into a hard surface at maximum speed!?
    Uhuh. Was he part of the investigating team? In the case of a known plane, tracked, seen crashing by dozens, witnessed flying by, passengers and crew dying, later identified, every single thing indicative of AA77, what world of facepalm do they scrape together the half dozen intact parts and check them against the plane? What possible reason stops them faking such activity if they faked everything else?

    Flight Data and Voice Recorders Found At Pentagon | PBS NewsHour
    That's a whole number of people who are either coerced/stupid or telling the truth! Your ludicrous "theory" gets more and more impossibly convoluted at every single step.

    Where is your logic and critical thinking? Are you afraid to answer the simple questions?

    Now you!!
    • Where should this "shadow" be and why!?
    • Explain why all of a sudden the witnesses testifying to a plane don't count!?
    • What crazy world of "rational/unbiased" do you look at the list quoted above and arm-wave it away without addressing it?
    • Here's a new one, since you indirectly claim that all the debris is manufactured (as is the human dna!), what stops them from just using bits from the original damn plane and "corroborating" THEM against serial numbers logged on components (vital and unique to the plane)?
    • How many extra people to do the entire fake batshit as opposed to just crashing the plane!?
    Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  8. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He doesn't go into enough detail. Look what he says about flight 93. I trust his judgement over yours.

    https://physics-911.com/georgenelson/
    (excerpt)
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    United Airlines Flight 93

    This flight was reported by the federal government to be a Boeing 757 aircraft, registration number N591UA, carrying 45 persons, including four Arab hijackers who had taken control of the aircraft, crashing the plane in a Pennsylvania farm field.

    Aerial photos of the alleged crash site were made available to the general public. They show a significant hole in the ground, but private investigators were not allowed to come anywhere near the crash site. If an aircraft crash caused the hole in the ground, there would have literally hundreds of serially-controlled time-change parts within the hole that would have proved beyond any shadow of doubt the precise tail-number or identity of the aircraft. However, the government has not produced any hard evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that the specifically alleged aircraft crashed at that site. On the contrary, it has been reported that the aircraft, registry number N591UA, is still in operation.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    ...according to the official story which should no be taken as fact. Bogus witnesses can be planted.

    There's also the theory that a 757 flew over the Pentagon and landed at the airport behind it.
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/faq/can-north-side-plane-hit
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/videos/national-security-alert

    Do you think it's possible that this is bogus info? It would be very easy for them to simply lie.

    The DNA can be explained.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/9-11con-the-pentagon.598106/#post-1074214216

    (from post #350)
    You're supposed to address this with an answer, not a question.
     
    Navy Corpsman likes this.
  9. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
    Navy Corpsman likes this.
  10. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Scott WHY ARE YOU EVADING MY POSTS/QUESTIONS?

    1. Was he part of the investigating team? NO HE WASN'T
    2. In the case of a known plane, tracked, seen crashing by dozens, witnessed flying by, passengers and crew dying, later identified, every single thing indicative of AA77, what world of facepalm do they scrape together the half dozen intact parts and check them against the plane? DELIBERATELY AVOIDED!
    3. What possible reason stops them faking such activity if they faked everything else? DELIBERATELY AVOIDED!

    Where is your logic and critical thinking? Are you afraid to answer the simple questions?

    Now you!!
    • Where should this "shadow" be and why!? Too far away, too low in the sky and too blurred. Your pathetic failure to answer this is noted.
    • Explain why all of a sudden the witnesses testifying to a plane don't count!? But The "Gallop" witness does!
    • What crazy world of "rational/unbiased" do you look at the list quoted by me and arm-wave it away without addressing it? Still ignored!
    • Here's a new one, since you indirectly claim that all the debris is manufactured (as is the human dna!), what stops them from just using bits from the original damn plane and "corroborating" THEM against serial numbers logged on components (vital and unique to the plane)?
    • How many extra people to do the entire fake batshit as opposed to just crashing the plane!? NEVER WILL THIS BE ANSWERED!
    Can you not see how ridiculous this is? - Obviously not.

    Well duh! My point exactly. How many crash investigations did he cover where the pilot deliberately rammed the plane into a hard surface at maximum speed!? ANSWER? ZERO! Because it never happens!

    A pathetic answer. Dozens of "planted witnesses" who all corroborate AA77?

    Spam already addressed. It was a C130.

    And this truly ridiculous batshit theory grows in numbers. How many more now?

    And this truly ridiculous batshit theory grows in numbers. How many more now?

    The question is highly relevant, why should there be a visible shadow!?

    Argument from "authority" that ignores EVERY authority except this!

    Kids can do this on Flight Software.

    But only the ones that assist with your ludicrous theory huh?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  11. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "No Planers" NEVER provide the numbers to quantify their ridiculous claims.

    How many?
    • Now we have to involve countless numbers of people to dispose , of the actual plane!
    • Burn it up and distribute parts all around the lawn and building!
    • HEY, why don't they just PRETEND to corroborate the serial numbers!?
    • We have to fabricate the ATC involvement.
    • We have to coerce all the eye-witnesses.
    • We have to have explosions to knock out lamp posts etc.
    • We have to fabricate the National Guard plane witness accounts.
    • We have to involve a team to blow up the building/launch the missile/other plane whichever batshit alternative is suggested!
    • Now we have to dispose / murder all the passengers, dismember some of them and scatter their DNA all over the crash site!
    • How many to get all the luggage and scatter this around the area?
    • Now we have to get actual passengers to fabricate(really!) their audio transcripts and phone calls!
    • We have to fabricate the black box data and/or coerce the analysts who view it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  12. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let me try for the 5th seeing nobody else will watch … I know you love videos Scott, so have you watched the long and very detailed presentation prepared by Wayne Coste and narrated by David Chandler? … even the OG that originally posted the vids avoids them like a hot potato …
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It looks to me like a damage-control video.

    Chapter 09: Explanation of the Evidence at the Pentagon on 9/11



    Start watching this at the 59:35 time mark. Pay special attention starting at the 1:11:38 time mark.

    National Security Alert - 9/11 Pentagon Event
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/videos/national-security-alert


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/9-11con-the-pentagon.598106/page-2#post-1074215121
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/news/2011-02-03-response-to-chandler-cole
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
  14. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gotta laugh at that. It's made by "911 truthers"!

    Meanwhile a whole barrage of basic and very fundamental issues are being completely ignored!

    See if we can get the answer to just one. No Pentagon plane means all the passengers and crew need disposing of. Does that seem like a simple process for you? They need to murder them all in cold blood, burn up their bodies and sprinkle their DNA over the crash site.

    I'll tell you something for an absolute fact - If the official account had something so ludicrous in it, there would be absolute uproar over it. And that's just one insane item on a long list. None of which would be needed if they simply aimed the plane at the building!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
  15. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Meh! Ok, if you can...... rewatch it from the point of view of a humble man not used to such attention, instead of the preloaded conspiracy batshit conclusion. Nothing he said was particularly odd, surprising or damning. The guy who made this video comes to a ridiculous conclusion saying he "admitted" to being in some bullshit "black ops"! No he didn't at all. "It was planned" - yes it was. But of course the batshit video implies it was internal when he says no such thing!

    You are hearing what you want to hear, being led by the deception of the video.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
    Shinebox likes this.
  16. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are several plausible scenarios
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/9-11con-the-pentagon.598106/#post-1074214216
    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cit/9-11-victim-body-parts-t1833.html
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/faq/flight-77-passengers-and-crew

    There might be something in here; I haven't had time to look.
    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cit/search.php?keywords=+passengers&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

    Our not knowing what happened to the passengers does not weaken the argument that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon.

    edit
    -------------------------------

    I haven't had time to watch these videos but I'm posting them anyway.
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/more-videos

    This is worth a look.
    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/faq
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
  17. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. No there aren't. There are two. One says the damn plane hit the target, witnessed by dozens. The other is the insane one with a massive list of must haves, that involves a needless large number of people - a totally stupid alternative that defies belief.

    Staggering. You dump speculative batshit up without any commentary but this time you haven't even watched it!?

    Correct inasmuch as the argument is already insanely weak.

     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2023
  18. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @ScottWere is your logic and critical thinking? Are you afraid to answer the simple questions?
    • Where should this "shadow" be and why!?
    • Explain why all of a sudden the witnesses testifying to a plane don't count!?
    • What crazy world of "rational/unbiased" do you look at the list quoted above and arm-wave it away without addressing it?
    • Here's a new one, since you indirectly claim that all the debris is manufactured (as is the human dna!), what stops them from just using bits from the original damn plane and "corroborating" THEM against serial numbers logged on components (vital and unique to the plane)?
    • How many extra people to do the entire fake batshit as opposed to just crashing the plane!?
    Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
     
  19. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Trophy Points:
    113
    damage control Scott? Please explain…. truthers are now engaging in damage control? … your credibility is on the line here …
     
  20. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    1,501
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how quaint that none of the truthers will address a truther video …
     
  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    According to this pilot it would have been impossible.

    Pilot Who Flew The Airplanes That Crashed on 9/11 Speaks Out!


    Be sure to check out the comment section.
     
  22. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,259
    Likes Received:
    843
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
  23. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is very amusing that it is actually "damage control"!
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
  24. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So what? Is he a conspiracy theorist? This is a pretty comfortable maneuver for a 757, though not normal. Children can do this on flight simulators.

    Mick West, a novice pilot videoed himself hitting the Pentagon doing the same flightpath.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
  25. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,773
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This thread is turning into a copy of all the other threads with significant posts being completely ignored!

    IF THERE WAS NO AA77 AT THE PENTAGON - dozens of things needed to happen to the plane, passengers, witnesses and investigators.

    It is absolutely insane for anyone in the planning stage to consider this moronic plan. Oh, a planning stage with no electronic or paper trail but a cast that grows exponentially with every hair-pulling claim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023

Share This Page