There are different more positive ways to achieve that same morality. Fear of eternal punishment is not needed.
Secular ethics and morals. This is lengthy, however worth listening to. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKf5cCm-9g"]Sam Harris: The Moral Landscape - YouTube[/ame]
I'm sorry,really, but I can't watch nearly 2 hours of this .. Is this the basic premise ? I'm just looking for a few quick hypothetical examples about how to teach logic and reasoning to a child without consequences or the fear of consequences.
That ethics can be based on benefit and harm, separate from religion, and reliant on neuroscience. That isn't what I am suggesting though. There is nothing wrong with telling someone "if you rob a bank you will go to prison". There is, however, an issue with convincing people they are going to hell for mere thoughts or lack of belief.
Ethics = neurosceince - the fact that ethics existed before neurosceince? Hell still equals consequences. The simple fact of the matter is that the only people really talking about hell on this forum are atheists.
swen - that brocoli bit sounds more like teaching the child alternatives , rather than instilling FEAR - IMO Fear in humans are as natural as it is in all creatures/criters - from Birds to bees / cats to crayfich + fish to fowls . Its part of all creatures self preservation, (*)(*)(*)(*) even plant life - why else would some like the cactus protect themselves. ? Take a closer look at other Eastern religions - like Budhhism/Jainism/Taoism /Shintoism etc,etc. Many years ago a took a short course in "Comparative " religious studies, it was the most enlightening lessons of my life. With todays technology - the NET - you should be able to learn more thn I did , within the click of a mouse. Good Luck . ...
Wolverine, I don't disagree that ethics/morals can be based on a benefit/harm system, in fact, I don't think there is another way but your statement that Needs to be shown because I'm not convinced of that. There is something wrong with telling someone "if you rob a bank you will go to prison." They might get away with it and make out pretty well. Where is the fear in that ? Anyway, I know that's a bit off topic but I thought it should be pointed out. If you mean people telling others that they are going to hell for this/that, I would agree .. But Jesus ? Well, that is subject to ones belief. i.e a warning is kinder than the punishment. Again, my main concern is the proof of this statement :
My argument essentially refutes the notion of imagined punishments for victimless crimes. The prospect of going to prison can be considered to be "fear", or whatever emotion you choose to attach to it, to me it doesn't matter. However lets say that I tell you you will go to hell if you work on the Sabbath, and lets assume you believe it. The moral of the issue is working on the Sabbath, but what harm comes from working on the Sabbath? Is eternal punishment a truly reasonable reaction to working on the Sabbath? No. It is not. It is using fear to coerce actions. I don't have an issue with cherry religions for morals, however that is not in and of its self a religious belief. I am quite the atheist, however I do not have any qualms in cherry picking this here or that there from a secular standpoint. A person does not need to invoke a god to embrace certain values.
If we are just playing hypotheticals,let's say it is true as well... Well if was true,it wouldn't matter if is was reasonable or not, I'd thank you for the warning. The only real punishment that comes from working 7 days a week (IMO) is to yourself = burnout,work work work...and to your family as well,if you overwork yourself to death or divorce. I wouldn't subscribe to your faith with these hypotheticals. Some do,some don't ..
Uhm, what am I supposed to learn exactly? I don't believe I have displayed any holes in my knowledge. I was comparing Christianity to child upbringing, I don't believe that eastern religions would give me any insight here but please prove me wrong.
I have said this several times, but the idea of Hell is not even a christian idea. Hell is the Norse Goddess of Torture. She tortures people who do not live up to the standards of the Norse gods. Christians who were trying to convert the Norse created the idea of a place of unimaginable horror, naming the place after Hell, in order to frighten the Norse into converting.
Whoah, Hel is not that bad. According to some, there is some torture going on but Hel is not in immediate charge of that, it's a bit of an aside. Hel is a nice place for eternal afterlife (Hel being both the place and the giantess who watches over it). A bit dark and gloomy, being underground, but eternal feasts in great halls were held there too. The name Hell is definitely taken from Hel and they even differentiated the Christian hell by calling it hell-viti, which essentially means "the punishment kind of hell". But the fire and brimstone, torture and the like is, to a greater extent, from Ancient Egypt and similar places.
