A Fundamental Reason for Vaccine Hesitancy

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Xyce, Aug 15, 2021.

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  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So science really isn’t your thing. Lots of studies show the effectiveness of alternate treatments. Your fealty to Fauci means you don’t follow the science. Two of the top scientists just resigned because Fauci isn’t following the science.
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are two groups created by the fear mongering. Those that worry and those that don’t. The worried are vaccinated and the unworried are not. It is the worried that are pushing all the dictatorial mandates. One would think they wouldn’t be worried after getting vaccinated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  3. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about we just treat people as individuals and respect their decisions when it comes to their own body?
     
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  4. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You can not make a blanket statement. It depends on the behavior of the vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals or populations you are comparing. My father in law self quarantined until fully vaccinated. Then he started doing his own shopping etc. and is now hospitalized with Covid.

    Yes, on average we will see more infections in the unvaccinated for a while. But there are unvaccinated individuals and demographics much less likely to be infected and/or spread Covid than some vaccinated individuals and demographics. Where you go, how often you go, your weight, your natural infection history with SARS-CoV-2, your other lifestyle/diet/exercise choices etc. all have as much or more effect on your chance of infection in the future as vaccination status.
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What is Fauci pushing that doesn't work? Vaccines work. Masks work. Monoclonal antibodies work. Hydroxychloroquine does not.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Because you have no right to spread a serious disease.
     
  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I'd bet plenty I took more university science than you have.
    Not hydroxychloroquine. Not vodka. Not nasal rinses. Not inhaling hydrogen peroxide. Not CBD oil. Ivermectin is being evaluated. On and on.
    Fauci said masks weren't necessary. I used this...

    4AAE5662-4B36-4163-A7A9-EBDA17517067.jpeg
    3M P100 respirator

    Not much fealty there.
    So what? I do. That's why I use a P100 respirator.
     
  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My issue is not with your beliefs; it is with the desire to force them on me. The position of forcing others to consume a product or to close their place of business is not from a position of concern for ones rights. No one is forcing you to remove your mask or get within 6 feet of another person. The fact that vaccinated people are catching and spreading it neutralizes your position.
     
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  9. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That must make cardio day at the gym very difficult!
     
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can't stop the spread of a respiratory virus so give up with the nonsense.
     
  11. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    Where in your post does it say that the insurance company will not provide coverage for those who are unvaccinated? Reading what you wrote, it does not appear that this is specific to the unvaccinated. In fact, the article states, "By waiving cost-sharing for COVID-19 testing and treatment, insurers are making it more likely that their subscribers get tested and treated for COVID-19 earlier on in their infection and illness.” In other words, it appears they are doing this so those affected with the illness seek treatment before the disease progresses to the point in which they end of in the ICU.

    Do you know what the percentage is of people with COVID that end up in the ICU? According to the Washington Post, only 5% do. (1) That's a really, really small number, and it does not justify the absolutely hysteria from Democrats about this disease. You and other Democrats on this forum talk up this virus as if it is a certainty or a probability of ending up in the ICU if you get COVID. Given the context, this hysteria is rooted in political disingenuousness more than ignorance of the facts.

    1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...3c3534-bbca-11ea-8cf5-9c1b8d7f84c6_story.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  12. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    So, you want us to stand by while the unvaccinated keep the pandemic going and wreck the economy because it's their right to spread covid? I don't think so. Unvaccinated types can stay away from places where they might spread covid.
     
  13. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    While better then your typical 95's or cloth mask crap that I can get away with placating virtue. Your eyes are and ears are still exposed and you have access to accidently transfer **** from your hands to your face without you even being aware of it.

    If you were really into science you'd already have yourself one of these that prevent exposure of your eyes and ears from the virus as well as preventing yourself from accidently contaminating your face with the dirt from your phone which is now on your hands...

    upload_2021-9-3_21-29-10.png

    It's ridiculous, but it's designed for people with severe immune deficiencies and is PERFECT in protecting you from covid or spreading it.

    Bet ya you won't wear one though! Because you've likely weighed your personal risk/reward and have decided to risk wearing a lesser mask for the reward of not looking ridiculous.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    But generalizations can be made. Overall, unvaccinated types are more likely to get covid.
    I do my own shopping, wear this respirator...

    55225182-EE17-4AFE-BACB-6F9DD4D400E1.jpeg
    3M P100 respirator

    ... and don't have covid. It's all just a matter of odds. Anecdotal stories.
    We can see how that works with the Delta variant and the unvaccinated filling up hospitals. Can we get to a measure of herd immunity with enough of the unvaccinated getting covid?
    Where I am in British Columbia, you're 12 times more likely to catch covid if you're unvaccinated. They can't all have bad immune systems.
     
  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't make mistakes like touching my face. I wear goggles.
    You're very unlikely to get covid through your ears. Do you know why!
    I don't contaminate my face by touching it with my hands or objects like phone.
    I don't wear a hazmat suit, either. The mask and P100 respirator are quite effective. Do you know why?
    I don't wear it because it would be too much bother given the risk. The P100 is quick to put on, inexpensive, and it's easy to have multiple masks.
     
  16. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    That all smells like bullshit excuse. I don't think one is aware as to how often you rub your eyes or your face. I doubt you wash your phone...I mean...sorry but you just making a claim that you "don't touch your face" isn't really good enough as ABSOLUTELY CANNOT TOUCH YOUR FACE, due to the barrier this mask places around your entire head.

    Beyond that since it's an envelope around your skull...there is no chance for the mask to not have a proper seal around your cheeks or under your chin allowing contaminates in or out. Or during the brief period you are making an adjustment because it slid out of proper position.

    My mask is absolute. Your get up is not.

    Science.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  17. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes generalizations are fine, but I care about individuals. I think it’s important for individuals to understand risk doesn’t go away with vaccination. Vaccination is less protective of the obese. It’s less likely to be protective in the aged and sedentary. A vaccinated individual in New Jersey is more likely to be infected than a similar aged/weight/fit vaccinated individual in Wyoming. A vaccinated self employed cabinet maker who works alone in his shop is less likely to be infected than the vaccinated resistance strength trainer of college athletes. Being vaccinated doesn’t change any of the other infection risk factors.
    The question is, will you ever tire of wearing a respirator? Covid isn’t going away.

    Actually the odds of being infected with SARS-CoV-2 while self quarantined are nearly zero. Lower than the odds of being infected wearing a respirator to the grocery store.
    Depends on what measure you are after. Over time most everyone including vaccinated individuals will have at least one natural infection. Each natural infection adds to the measure of herd immunity—possibly more than a vaccination does. We are going to have to accept people will always die from Covid just like we have always accepted deaths from influenza.
    Sure. That sounds about right. That ratio will narrow over time as more and more unvaccinated are infected and die or recover with pretty dang good immunity.
     
  18. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The vaccinated either give you what you want and see the pandemic continue or remove your chance to spread the virus by not allowing you to frequent places with lots of faces. If you follow protocols to reduce transmission voluntarily, no restrictions would be necessary.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I have exercise equipment in my home.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Worked with measles.
     
  21. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Many are not, some are. Like me.
    I'm not interested making the effort to secure a little more safety.

    I don't wash my phone because I don't put it near my face.

    Protecting yourself requires paying attention to detail. Maybe you're a big picture guy.
     
  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Let's not confuse risk factors for a bad outcome with the likelihood of infection.
    Relevance?
    I only wear a respirator when I'm in places with faces.
    It may be vaccinated away.
    We may develop improved treatments, more effective vaccines--why be the last guy to die in the war?
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You must think all colds have been cured too since 1/3 of colds are caused by corona viruses. In compromised people a cold can kill them.
     
  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not. The factors I’ve listed all increase likelihood of infection. It’s so sad almost two years into a pandemic and you guys aren’t given this information. I’ve been trying to get people to take action to prevent infection and increase efficacy of vaccines since May of 2020 when I started encouraging people to lose weight and exercise so when vaccines were available they could decrease the chance of having a breakthrough infection.
    I care about people. I want everyone to understand they can do simple things that can keep them safe. Things nobody else will tell them. Like not exercising or being obese increases their chances of being infected whether they are vaccinated or not.
    Sure. When will you tire of it? Covid isn’t going away. It’s going to be endemic. You going to wear a respirator everywhere there are faces forever?
    That’s as unlikely at this point as Trump wishing it away. Of all people I never thought I’d hear you echo a Trumpism.
    We already have a prophylactic more effective than the vaccines at preventing infection. Lasts about a year. Expensive but very effective. Your betters in government won’t let anyone use it though. Hopefully we come up with something acceptable to both political parties at some point but it’s doubtful based on what we’ve seen so far.
     
  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean you're conceding?
     

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