A Mask Mandate is NOT a law

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Balto, Jul 18, 2020.

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  1. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    A buddy of mine in Colorado told me a statewide mask mandate went into effect yesterday. That ridiculousness has already been a thing eating the country alive. Then came the report the same day that Walmart was hopping on the authoritarian bandwagon with its mask policy. Retailers have no legal precedent to force customers to wear masks. If mandates were laws, this would be different. But legislatures didn’t pass these laws, courts didn’t check them, no bill was signed by any governor.

    That’s how a law is created. Health departments threaten civil and criminal penalties, but in order to be penalized, a law must exist to be broken. So they are not making sense. The ludicrousness doesn’t end there. You can be charged with trespassing, although entering an establishment without a mask doesn’t come close to matching the legal definition of trespassing. Even Sheriff Departments have come out saying it’s not a law.

    Can governors stop trying to pathetically control their citizens lives yet? We don’t live in North Korea.
     
  2. Liberalis

    Liberalis Well-Known Member

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    Guess you've never heard of "no shirt, no shoes, no service."

    Private businesses have every right to require people to wear masks if they so choose. Want to go to a fancy club? Better wear a collared shirt. Want to go to Walmart? Better wear a mask.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sad to report that the rule of law in this country has been stone cold dead for a number of years.

    Otherwise, great post! :applause:
     
  4. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason why the US leads the world in infections and deaths by massive margins: our disgusting selfish arrogance. We deserve to have our economy shattered, to have our savings wiped out, to have our businesses crushed, to have our unemployment lines stretch for miles, we DESERVE it all. We were the leader of the free world and our last act in that role was to demonstrate what NOT to do in a pandemic.

    Practically every one else in the world responded to this pandemic by making the most basic of concessions for the common good of their countries and communities. But not Americans, ohhhh no, not us disgusting degenerate selfish ***** Americans. When we were asked to put on a simple mask and stand a few feet apart in public we responded with baby bitch fit temper tantrums, with protesting, with lawsuits, with mockery, with the spreading of fake news and lies, with delusional diatribes about "muh rights muh freedoms", and some of us even responded with violence. We will reap that which we have sown it is an inevitable promise of God.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  5. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    I have the right to refuse service. My business is a No Mask No Service business since 3 Month. I have the legal precedent to require Masks and refuse Service to anybody without a Mask.

    In CO the enforcement of the Mask Mandate lies with the business, financial penalties and revoking license are possible. In CO rules by the Health Department are as good as a law and the Governor signed the decreed/order and it is guilty for 30 days.

    Well Done Governor.
     
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  6. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    If you don't like the policy of.a private entity that requires wearing a mask upon entering, don't shop there. Pretty simple.
     
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  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Private property can ask you to leave for any reason. You can try to sue them later, but you can't forcibly stay there when asked to leave.

    The problem with the mandates is when private properties think they are at risk of fines or penalties for not requiring masks. Such a mandate requires a law enacted democratically via The People, which isn't being done.
     
  8. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    The coding of Covid at many hospitals is way overblown. I read today that a man who died in a motorcycle accident was coded as dying from covid. Follow the money. I doubt we have 1/2 as many that is reported cause you know, Trump.
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious what they will do if they issue you a fine and you say "bugger off". They gonna put everyone in jail?
     
  10. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    That's what Americans do. Hell, our entire country was founded on those sorts of ideals, which sadly we've long since forgotten. You're in the wrong country.
     
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  11. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Imagine it would fall under the same consequences of failure to pay other fines. Eventually they all catch up to you. Maybe they reach an egregious level and a judge issues an arrest warrant. Maybe its as simple as the next time you go to register a vehicle or to vote, or apply for a firearms purchase, or renew a drivers license and its declined because you have pending fines.
     
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  12. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The health depart has the right to issue orders concerning health, like food workers having to wear gloves, or that patrons can not spit on the floor, or food temps, or you can not bring your dog indoors of a restaurant, or what ever.
    Since in CO it is a temporary order, just good for 30 days, considering a health crisis, I can not see anything wrong with it, even the way it will be enforced.
    It is far better to do it this way, than ordering non essential businesses to close again.
    By the way, it is in the interest of non essential businesses, to help to enforce the order, so we can keep the State open, earn money, keep our employees and so on.
    CO is still doing rather good concerning the virus, because of it we get flooded from States that have a serious problem, Texas, California, Arizona and even East Coast States. We call them The Covid Haulers.
    What CO is doing, is self defense, against the stupidity we see in other States.

    I applaud our Governor, he should have done it 4 weeks ago, when the invasion from the problem States started.
     
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  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats just a really nice way of saying 'its OK to override the Will of the People so long as its in their best interest.'

    No.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  14. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    It is quiet simple in CO, its us the businesses who have to enforce the order, we get fined, penalized and can even loose our business license.

    The sign in Colorado says "no entrance without a mask", you do, you trespass. That is the official sign we have to post.
    There is the double banger. Trespass is not a speeding ticket, individual, businesses have to prevent the trespass or get fined, the individual trespassing gets a day in court.
    It will be interesting how that works out. But it has already a impact in my county, mask wearing went up from 40% to nearly 80%. By middle of next week it will probably be 100%
     
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  15. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Yes, sometimes it needs to be done, like seat belts.
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the war on drugs...

    If we're to nanny folks with laws for their own good, where do we draw the line?
     
  17. dgrichards

    dgrichards Well-Known Member

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    In normal times, yes. But these are not normal times and history tells us that there have been other times when the constitution and laws were temporarily suspended for the common good. Government has the right, no, the duty to enact such measures as needed.
     
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  18. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    That is a good and rather difficult question, how to balance the common good against individual rights.
    The strength of a democracy/republic shows in emergencies, were common good stands over individual rights and when the emergency is over, the individual rights will be re-installed.
    The US has done it before, WWII, it showed the strength of the country and its people and constitution.
    Once the emergency was over, live returned to normal, stronger than before, they sacrificed their individual rights for the common good, The Great Generation.
     
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  19. dgrichards

    dgrichards Well-Known Member

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    Don't look now, but I think your tin foil hat is slipping.
     
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  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats just as true as it is that if we hadn't sacrificed our rights in WW1 there wouldn't have been a WW2. The Germans would have won or sued for a conditional surrender without US involvement so drastically turning the war, and the conditions that facilitated Hitler's Reich (and possibly Russia's revolution, for that matter) would never have existed.

    Theres always going to be some emergency or another that requires us to sacrifice our rights, so long as we maintain that mindset.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The treaty after WWI was the cause for WWII. Luckily the victors of WWII learned from it.

    Yes, it is a huge problem, there is always an emergency, but the quality of a constitution and the institution which protect it shows how emergencies are handled and how a return to normalcy is handled, that is the political system.

    WWII and its return to normalcy was the masterpiece for this country, absolutely outstanding how it was done.
    Why should that not repeat ?
     
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  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The harshness of the treaty of Versailles was a result of the US intervening in a war that was none of our business. As I already explained, the Germans would not have been defeated to the point of unconditional surrender if not for our participation.

    Why it should not repeat, exibit #1- the MIC and the resulting endless sandbox wars. A direct result of WW2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  23. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you really believe incarcerating someone over personal private consumption of a plant is similar to asking someone to wear a mask in public?
     
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  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup. They're both the result of an attempt to protect people by limiting victimless activity. AKA 'nanny stating.'
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  25. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    This treaty was only possible because the US went into isolation, after the armistice. The armistice was a result of utter exhaustion of all resource and a mental exhaustion of all parties, especially the military leadership. Even the US leadership, just being in the war for 16 month could not tolerate the butchery any more.
    Had the US thrown it weight into the negotiation of the treaty, there would have been a good possibility that WWII would have never happened.
    The treaty was left to the French and they had a gigantic ax to grind, all the way back to 1870.
    The US troops, who fought gallantly and heroically were just more canon fodder. It was the British Tank, which breached the lines and changed the war.
     
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