Abbas' book reveals: The 'Nazi-Zionist plot' of the Holocaust

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4596121,00.html

And many (too many) people still believe (or claim to believe) Abbas is a "moderate leader", who wants nothing but "peaceful two-state solution".

 

ancient history.

 

I would be interested to see what evidence there is that after 1933 the German Zionists tried to fight against Hitler or organise against Hitler. Whilst I do not agree with collusion theories apart from a very small group. I see little evidence that they were activists against Hitler.

 

I am not sure which bits of Abbas’ writing you disagree with, or did you simply assume that that YNetNews article was impeccable. I didn’t. So in line with Erskine Childers’ 1961 advice, I checked the sources.

I presume that your main issue is with Abbas' casting doubt on the fact that six million Jews had been murdered. Am I correct? So I read Edy Cohen’s analysis of Abbas’ book, which Ynetnews simply parrots. To be honest, I was underwhelmed. Cohen is heavy on insinuations and accusations but remarkably light on facts to convincingly support his position. It reminds me of this forum at times. Example: Where does Cohen prove that in fact Abbas called the ‘6 million’ number “a lie”. I found that Cohen crudely inserted that himself. We call that a strawman on this forum. And I have a particular aversion to those chaff effigies being used in bad-faith reasoning. YNetNews should be more selective before accepting figures on a pole.

But then Cohen plays the biggest card of all – anti-Semitism. But he just ‘says’ it is – no sources; no reasoning, just as he did in producing the "lie". This card has become so tattered with overuse that I can almost predict that when it is being used, it is to shore up a weak reasoning. As usual the hasbara magician waves the card around … prominently … in your face … as a disguise for his clumsy logic going on in the other hand.

So, where does Abbas REALLY lie, or is he simply being naïve? I have yet to meet a naïve wolf

----------------------

I know that you don’t like debating with members who provide alternative views to your own, AND back them up with verifiable references. But that is the nature of debate, and I like it, especially with posters like Gilos. He doesn't threaten to throw his toys out of the pram when he is shown contrary facts, and when he disagrees, he provides his own facts (see my signature) and they thereby add to the collective knowledge. Silence is never an effective defence; you are always suspect.

 

First of all, the six million is not a complete number, it just how much we know that were killed. For example, Eichmann said in his trail in Israel that 10 million Jews were killed.

Secondly, Abu Mazen, as alot of Arabs in the Middle East refered as "Holocaust denier". And that's it because of his university thesis when he learned in Jordan in the 80's:

Abbas said in 1993, that he wrote this thesis because they were in wer against Israel, which means that he said there that he wrote his thesis when he relied on his political opinions, odd, dont you think? therefore, his thesis was incorrect, which means that your source Edy Cohen, that you said soppurt Abbas's thesis, is incorrect as well.

This deneil wasnt began with Abbas, but it was long before that in the Middle East:

The article of Ahmad Regav was published in 2001.
As you can see this nazi appraoce by the Arabs began in 1937, when Hitler himself conducted campaigns in that region! and this is just reainforce the fact that Arabs the Arabs of the Middle East cooperated with Hitelr and the Nazis. Or like Haj Amin did:

Here was was published in Syria, in January 31st, 2000:

Dont you think it's a little bit odd? that someone that denies the holocaust is using the same thing he denies for his own political reasons? that's, my friend, a contridaction.

Source: http://archive.adl.org/holocaust/denial_me/holocaust_denial_mid_east_prt.pdf

I can tell you that I like it as well, but the thing is that I dont see the necessity of bringing up your debates and parsonal view that you have on Gilos.

 

As already been said - ancient history.

Nevertheless I find that there are many others who know well abt Zionism role in the Holocaust . Men like Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann of Australia. He harshly said :
"'Zionists Were Spiritually And Physically Responsible For The Holocaust'

From its' inception, many rabbis warned of the potential dangers of Zionism and openly declared that all Jews loyal to G-d should stay away from it like one would from fire. They made their opinions clear to their congregants and to the general public. Their message was that Zionism is a chauvinistic racist phenomenon which has absolutely naught to do with Judaism.

They publicly expressed that Zionism would definitely be detrimental to the well being of Jews and Gentiles and that its effects on the Jewish religion would be nothing other than destructive.

Further, it would taint the reputation of Jewry as a whole and would cause utter confusion in the Jewish and non-Jewish communities. Judaism is a religion. Judaism is not a race or a nationality. That was and still remains the consensus amongst the rabbis.


All of the leading Jewish religious authorities of that era predicted great hardship to befall humanity generally and the Jewish People particularly, as a result of Zionism.

---

also see - Ten Questions to the Zionists, by Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandl


Read and learn :

http://www.truetorahjews.org/tenquestions

The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine,
by Edwin Black

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.[3] Hitler himself personally supported Zionism. During the 1930's, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine.

As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized "Kibbutz" training camps over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of "Israel".

The Transfer Agreement (which promoted the emigration of German Jews to Palestine) implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII is an important example of the cooperation between Hitler's Germany and international Zionism. Through this agreement, Hitler's Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930's to support Jewish development in Palestine and further the Zionist goals.


Hitler and the Zionists had a common goal: to create a world Jewish Ghetto as a solution to the Jewish Question.

The Transfer Agreement The Zionist so-called "World Jewish Congress" declared war on the country of Germany, knowing that it would affect their Jewish brothers residing in that country who would be left without protection. When others tried to help them escape to other countries, the Zionist movement took actions which caused those countries to lock their doors to Jewish immigration (read more in the books, "Perfidy" and "Min Hametzer").

As a result of the Zionist influence five ships of Jewish refugees from Germany arriving in the United States were turned back to the gas chambers.


The fundamental aim of the Zionist movement has been not to save Jewish lives but to create a "Jewish state" in Palestine.


On December 7, 1938, Ben Gurion, the first head of the Zionist ˜state of Israel' declared

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."


On August 31, 1949, Ben Gurion stated: "Although we have realized our dream of creating a Jewish State, we are only at the beginning There are still only 900,000 Jews in Israel, whereas the majority of the Jewish people still remains abroad. Our future task is to bring all the Jews to Israel."


Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine.

The vast majority, 75%, went to the Soviet Union In the mid-70's, more people emigrated out of ˜Israel' than came in. The only surges of immigration to the Zionist state have occurred during anti-Semitic threats and persecution in foreign countries

It follows that for the Zionist state to achieve its goal of a Jewish world ghetto anti-Semitism must be promoted and encouraged, and as we have seen, by acts of violence if necessary.


"To attain its practical objectives, Zionism hopes it will be able to collaborate with a government that is fundamentally hostile to the Jews".


The use of anti-Semitism as a tool to coerce immigration to the Zionist state continues to the present day:


Prime Minister Sharon has stated that anti-Semitism is on the rise and that the only hope for the safety of Jews is to move to Israel under the protection of the Zionist state.

"The best solution to anti-Semitism is immigration to Israel. It is the only place on Earth where Jews can live as Jews," he said.
Those who continue to call the so-called "state of Israel" the "Jewish State" are not only promoting Zionism which is contrary to the beliefs of true Judaism, but also endorsing the promotion of worldwide anti-Semitism. In doing so they are endangering the lives of traditional Jews and denying their civil liberties and human rights


When the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour (sponsor of the 1905 Aliens Act to restrict Jewish immigration to the UK), wanted the British government to commit itself to a Jewish homeland in Palestine, his declaration was delayed - not by anti-Semites but by leading figures in the British Jewish community.

They included a Jewish member of the cabinet who called Balfour's pro-Zionism "anti-Semitic in result". In contrast, a great statesman like Secretary of State Colin Powell, a supporter of traditional Judaism, has the courage to separate Judaism from Zionism and to acknowledge that speaking out against the actions of the Zionist state is not "anti-Semitism".


We call upon our leaders in Washington to disassociate the actions of the Zionist state from traditional Judaism by no longer referring to "Israel" as the "Jewish State" but as "the Zionist State" and to speak out against the Zionist actions which promote anti-Semitism.

read more here :

http://www.truetorahjews.org/antisemitism


.....

 

if we bring up some of the racist (*)(*)(*)(*) said by Zionist leaders 30 years ago, Zionists would scream "its ancient history!!!!!!"

 

Ooo! Ahhhh ! That good old muft . story LOL

Go read 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis

Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:


“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely.

“It is our opinion that an answer to the Jewish question truly satisfying to the national state can be brought about only with the collaboration of the Jewish movement that aims at a social, cultural and moral renewal of Jewry–indeed, that such a national renewal must first create the decisive social and spiritual premises for all solutions.

“Zionism believes that a rebirth of national life, such as is occurring in German life through adhesion to Christian and national values, must also take place in the Jewish national group. For the Jew, too, origin, religion, community of fate and group consciousness must be of decisive significance in the shaping of his life. This means that the egotistic individualism which arose in the liberal era must be overcome by public spiritedness and by willingness to accept responsibility.”

By 1936, the Post ran a news flash, “German Zionists Seek Recognition”:


“A bold demand that the German Zionist Federation be given recognition by the Government as the only instrument for the exclusive control of German Jewish life was made by the Executive of that body in a proclamation today. All German Jewish organizations, it was declared, should be dominated by the Zionist spirit.”

Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler. By 1940-41, the “Stern Gang,” among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the “Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.”

Avraham Stern and his followers announced that


“The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.

2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,

3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.

Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany’s side.”

They hanged people all over Europe after WW II for notes to the Nazis like these. But these treasons against the Jews were virtually unknown in the run up to the creation of the Zionist state in May 1948. Ninety percent of America’s Jews suddenly became emotional pro-Zionists. With Democrats, Republicans and even the Communist-organized Progressive Party competing for Jewish votes in the November Presidential election, Harry Truman’s monetary aid bought arms from pro-Soviet Czechoslovakia, and an Israel was born, run by the German Zionists’ cothinkers in Jerusalem.

Jews and other Americans still know little of Zionism’s sordid past....

source : (one of many others )

http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/12/23/51-documents/


Back to the Mufti in my next post (wink)


..

 

Re Mufti

The Mufti was an incompetent reactionary who was driven into his anti-Semitism by the Zionists. It was Zionism itself, in its blatant attempt to turn Palestine from an Arab land into a Jewish state, and then use it for the yet further exploitation of the Arab nation, that generated Palestinian Jew-hatred. Rabbi Yitzhak Hutner of Aguda Yisrael gave a perceptive explanation for the Palestinian's career.

It should be manifest, however, that until the great public pressures for the establishment of a Jewish state, the Mufti had no interest in the Jews of Warsaw, Budapest or Vilna. Once the Jews of Europe became a threat to the Mufti because of their imminent influx into the Holy Land, the Mufti in turn became for them the Malekh Hamoves --the incarnation of the Angel of Death.

Years ago, it was still easy to find old residents of Yerushalayim who remembered the cordial relations they had maintained with the Mufti in the years before the impending creation of a Jewish State.


This shameful episode, where the founders and early leaders of the State were clearly a factor in the destruction of many Jews, has been completely suppressed and expunged from the record.

If the Mufti's collaboration with the dictators cannot be justified, it becomes absolutely impossible to rationa1ise the Haganah's offers to spy for the Nazis. Given the outcry against the Ha'avara and the servile posture of the ZVfD, it seems certain that, at the very least, a signiflcant minonty of the WZO would have voted with their feet had they known of the Haganah's subterranean betrayal.



also see "The Rape of Palestine," by William Ziff,

He wrote :most Arab residents of Palestine wanted nothing more than to live in peace and prosperity with the Jews which they believed was their good fortune.

"The Moslem religious leaders, the Mufti, was openly friendly. Throughout Arabia, the chiefs were for the most part distinctly pro- Zionist: and in Palestine the peasantry were delighted at every prospect of Jewish settlement near their villages. Commercial intercourse between Arab and Jew was constant and steady." pp.13

The Mufti was not elected by the religious leaders , he was appointed by Sir Herbert Samuel - a Zionist. the first Jewish High Commissioner in Palestine.

read Joel Bainerman Were Jews and Arabs Destined
To Hate Each Other?


http://www.rense.com/general27/ahate.htm



tata ....

 

So can I presume that you are agreeing that Abbas never wrote that the figure of 6 million deaths was a lie? I read your post carefully but I still couldn't tell if you agreed or not.

Regarding my praise of Gilos, he deserves it. And I like posting positive comments as well as critiques.

 

It is not contredacting what I said!! Please keep track on the years i refered to!

That part is talking about that all of the Jewish movement need to colaborete to achieve the solution of a national state. It is nothing have to do with what I wrote.

In the German life style that the German nationality will be the thing that German will live by, and this part says that Zionism need to take this idea (the idea of having a national life ONLY!) and to fullfil it in Zionism, but it doesnt say anything about "collaboretion between Jews and Nazis".

The Jews didnt talked to Hitler, and pretty much ignored him when he started rule Germany in 1933, and it came from after reading Mein Kampf, and to realize that HItler's ideas are to hurt the Jews. It seems that you source have lack of acknoladge about the pre-wer period.

It was an ecusation, but never been proven as true! therefore, you cant refer it as fact.

Not quit, because the Jewish aspirations was to have a state of their own in the Land of Israel and to immigrate there and work the land, which they did. But the new order that the Nazis offered was not as close as the Jewish aspirations! because the new order talked about that the "old world" need to be sedtroyed and a new one need to be established, and in this "new world" people will be devided into groups of masters and slaves acourding to the nazis idea of the race theory and living space.

Still deosnt say it happen!

Once again, it says something that didnt happen! this part says so.

Once agian, you are talking about some story that never been proven, but if you would exemine this proposal further, you would see that the Nazis rejected it, which means that the Nazis rejected a collaboretion with the Jews.

Doesnt contridact what I wrote to you.

 

The Jews didnt blatant attempted anything, because the Jews were lived in the Land of Israel all along, even after the exiles. Furtheremore, the Land of Israel was never all Arab, acourding to the Ottoman and British land registery, and even acourding to Jordan that occoupied the West Bank between 1948-1967.

The Mufti sent a letter to Mossulini to urge him to deliver 700 Jewish children to Poland and dont allow them to come to the Land of Israel. Furtheremore, he also mentioned that Mossulini need to deliver Jews from Hungary to Poland, where the mass murder took place.

This is truly shameful!

This story about Shamir and the Nazis was never been proven, and if you read the whole story of it you could see that the Nazis rejeceted it!

That was after or before the riots of 1921? or the riots of 1929? or the collaboretion with the Nazis and the opportunity to posioned Rosh Ha'ayn springs?

BTW- there is no "races" in the world!! this is a recist claim!!

Not quit!
The family of al-Husseini came to the Land of Israel in the 17th century and was against to the Jews.
For example, Haj Amin al Husseini was against Jews and collaborated with the Nazis.
His father Taher al-Husseini was against the Jews and infolanced the Ottoman rule in the Land of Israel, it was in the 19th century, long before the existance or the idea of the state of Isreal.
Jamal al-Husseini came from Jordan to the Land of Israel and alot of Arab gangs was under his rule, they fought against the Jews and were located in the Galilee.
Faisal Husseini was part of the PLO and close to Arafat. As we all know the PLO was behind the Second Intifadah.
Musa al-Husayni was against Zionism and even in one of his speeches he said that the Zionism causes troubles. His acts against the Jews were even in 1920's, long before the existance of the sate of Israel.
Kamal al-Husseini, the one who had a lukewarm opinion about the Jews.

Abbas did write that the figure of the 6 million was a lie, but he anounced that this thesis was written beacuse of the conflict, therefore, he wrote this thesis based on his political views, thus, it isnt true (that there were less then the 6 million), even acourding to Abbas himself. Which means that he contridacted his own thesis.

If you are asking what I think what was the number of Jews that were killed in the Holocaust, for me is 10 Million, and this is based on what Eichmann said in his trail.

 

All sounds like crap - no reliable sources - just more regurgitation
of what you learnt / was indoctrinated by your Zionist programmers /thought controllers

Utter Dreck.

...


....

 

Once again, you are wrong!
What I know, it is according to historians that I know + according to world wide known archeaologist that also an historian himself.


If you cant contridact what I wrote to you, then you cant say its crap!! please stop evoiding the truth of history!!

 

I agree with Marlowe. You show no sources, and excuse us if we don’t simply take your word as being the truth.
So I challenge you – exactly where in Abbas’ writings did he claim that the figure of 6 million was a lie. I suspect that you lifted it from the Cohen article on YNetNews or from Commentary Magazine or the Jewish Virtual Library – all of which are again, I bet you, without proper references. In the Wiki article on “The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism”, where does the word “lie” appear?

Abbas and "the lie" is fast becoming another hasbara MYTH.

 

I already provided you the source, but let me do that again:

And here is what Abbas said when he was interviewed in Ma'ariv newspeper:

Can you see it? Abbas' himself anounced that his thesis was based on parsonal political views, and he wouldnt have made such remarks today, therefore, he debuked his own thesis.

Source: http://archive.adl.org/holocaust/denial_me/holocaust_denial_mid_east_prt.pdf

Here is another sources:

And if you are doubt about it, you could see that Abbas misqouted historian Raul Hilberg and Robert Faurisson

Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/{DFD2AAC1-2ADE-428A-9263-35234229D8D8}/DENIAL_REPORT.PDF

In that source you can find also a qouting of Auschwitz Commandant Rudolf Höss himself about the Holocaust and their acts they did against the Jews..


As you can see both of the sources are respected articels, and not from Israeli media as you thought.
Do you know that Wiki is not so much a relaible source, right?

 

I don’t see the word “lie” in your quotation. Could you point it out please?

I don’t see the word “lie”. Could you point it out please?

No, I can’t see it – the word “lie” that is. Could you point it out please?

I checked that entire source. Nowhere does it mention that Abbas accused anyone of lying. Nowhere, no matter how much you post that he did. Show me please.

I placed in bold script what Abbas REALLY wrote. Can you see it? (your quote, not mine). I bet you that you can see it WAAAAAY better than I can see the word “lie” in there.

 

Indeed, Wiki can be incorrect - for instance, you can register as a Wiki editor and then alter the article about Abbas' book, and alter it to read that he DID call the 6 million figure a lie. But when there is a significant amount of discussion under the ‘TALK’ tab, it is likely to have been thoroughly checked, and you will be caught out, and your edit will be reverted.

 

In the first source you could see him say to Ma'ariv newspeper that:

Which means if he said "Today I would not have made such remarks" beacuse of Oslo (this interview was condeacted in 1995), therefore, he said in 1995 that he wouldnt have nade such remarks if there was peace between the Arabs and the Jews in the 80's, therefore, he said simpley that his assumption relied on his own political agenda and not on valid history facts.

The evidence for it is when he misqouted two historians. I dont get why are you ignoring it!

My sources showed you that Abbas misqouted (which means qouted something that wasnt true) two historians, I dont get why are you ignoring that!!

All of my sources that I provided you are related to the issue we are talking about.

I showed you two proofs:
1. he said that he relied his assumption on his political view- as far as I concern when a person rely his assumptions on somthing that is not facts but just personal view, it means that that assumption is wrong!!
2. Abbas misqouted two historians- which means that misquoting is to deflaction of what was really been said.

 

You showed zero proofs that Abbas actually wrote that the 6 million figure was a ”lie” which is what you claimed here:

Since then you have written hundreds of words trying to defend what you wrote there. But you have failed miserably because even with all your insinuations, the simple fact is that right now you have been unable to show that Abbas wrote ”lie”.

You have tried to insinuate that “misquote” is the same as “writing lie”. It is not.
You have tried to show that writing “peddled” is the same as writing “lie”. It is not.
You have tried to show that “debunking his own thesis” is the same as calling something a "lie”. It is not.
You have tried to show that implying that an “assumption is wrong” is the same as proving that someone wrote "lie”. It is not.

What you yourself posted was that Abbas in fact wrote:

Now THAT was a fact that you indeed proved. But by no stretch of the imagination or of the English language can you use what we both agree that he wrote to mean the same as writing that the figure was a ”lie”. Because it is simply and clearly NOT the same.

I don’t know if we have a language problem, but you appear to misunderstand what “the same" means.

 

This words were trying to describe you what actually Abbas said in his interview, for example, but it seems that you dont really care.

Misqouting is to deflact the things that some historian said about the Holocaust, thus, if Abbas based his theory on something that those historians never said, it means it is a lie.

Let me asl you something:
When a person write about the number of deaths in the Holocaust while he uses his own political agenda and try to navigate this assumption with his political view, does it means that it is valid assumption? or is it just trying to match the history on his opinion? if so, it means that Abbas just did so without relying on valid historical facts.

I said "debunking his own thesis" and what I ment is if he debunked his own thesis when he said that he would never wrote such remarks in 1995 so how can anybody take his thesis as truth if even Abbas anounced that his thesis wouldnt never been written without this conflict? and of course this wuestion lead us to the first thing I said to you in this comment.

When an assumption is wrong, and I use the term "lie", because Abbas misqouted historians, which means wrote something that those historians never said.

So if Abbas wrote that the actuall number cant be proven why he deflected what those historians say to prove his claim? another proof of that assumption was based on nothing! only on his own political view.

I know what "the same" is, dont worry.

BTW- when you are starting to insult my vocabulary is not doing you well!!

 

I have proved that Abbas said (using your own reference) that "the number" cannot be proved or disproved. You are going to have to accept your own reference - or are you unwilling to do that?. Nowhere did he write that the "number" was a lie. You are going to have to accept that. It is a plain verifiable fact (by you), and I am not going to waste more time with your strawmen. End of debate..

 

So why do the hasbara specialists feel the need to go to such contortions to prove (unsuccessfully) that Abbas called the "6 million number" a lie?
I think it is worth considering their fervour. What is the motive for such a blatant MYTH?

 

You didnt prove that! why? because if this figure cant be proven or be denied, why did Abbas have the need to misqouted the historians? and because of the fact that Abbas misqouted those historians it just shows you that his claim was based on nothing.

I dont know why are you trying to evoid that.

Because his thesis prove that Abbas's claim about the 6 million was without any valid basis, but only on deflected qoutes of historians and personal political agenda. He even said so at an interview from 1995 to Ma'ariv newspeper, why are you ignoring what Abbas himself said?

Nice, so without any of proof that could contridact what I wrote to you, you are saying that it is a myth? nice avoidance tactic you pulled there!!

 

There are chilling double standards in combatting the Holocaust denial.
Even among the (liberal) Jews.