Abortion is evil? WHY?

But why is the survival of the human race important?

So you're using a guess to validate an ethical position? That's not exactly compelling.

But why allow those when they could also contribute to the developmental process you speak of. also wouldnt it be more logical to extent abortion services more globally? whatismore, isnt the history of nations with abortion now evidence to the fact that the existence of it outside is irrelevant to that nations internal development since the same features exist anyway?

Can you give examples of this phenomenon. Also what is bad about family structure breaking up?

I have never heard this before. Can you provide some sources and evidence for your claims, or is it all theoretical guess work?

 

Why is potential important?

 

I'm not trying to play anything. Your last argument was premised on the idea 'life is precious' - those were your words not mine. i am merely questioning that premise since that is the topic if the thread.

I actually completely agree with you. Here's the thing though a fetus DOES NOT consider its life precious. Why? Because it has no mind with which to value it's life! Incidentally animals value their life but I'm sure you kill them without a second thought. I guess you're a psychopath by your logic

 

I'm a "Lifer" but my position isn't based on religious belief. It is based on this simple premise: "good" is whatever you want so long as your actions do not in any way harm another".

How I apply it to this situation is a purely a logical progression. life starts at conception.

It effectively rises to "evil" when the fetus is viable outside the womb (and even more so if the decision is for casual or frivolous reasons) because that action, abortion, harms another.

In short, do the crime do the time. If you have sex without consideration for the consequences, then booh booh; you rolled the dice and you lost. Your unborn child shouldn't have to pay for your mistake.

This is the 21st century. You had sex education in school. You can't possibly faint ignorance.

On the other hand, I am not prone to make absolute statements. There are extenuating circumstances that I might find as acceptable exceptions. I'm not going to fully expound on these, but some are:
- carriage to term would harm the health of the mother.
- the baby suffers from debilitating deformation that would make its life unbearable.
- in cases of incest.

I'm open to the possibility that tere might be more, but I can't think of any.

I feel the need to also say that I used to be pro choice. Now that I have kids, I can't imagine that many justifications for abortions.

--- Tribble
P.S. I haven't read the thread yet, so it'll be interesting to hear other points of view.

 

Replying to the scientific giants above, those being Pasithea, Fugazi, and Megadethfan: Thank you for telling us that unborn babies have no brain function/waves, and that the unborn have no ability to think. You tell us that scientific evidence supports your assertion. Nobody on this forum would lie, I understand that. Therefore, I'll attribute your incorrect claim to ignorance. If you believe your claim is correct, please provide the scientific studies that support your incorrect claim! Otherwise, please retract your false claim, and tell us if being proven wrong will change your position on abortion.

You may want to check the “Pregnancy” website to start at http://www.pregnancy.org/article/overview-fetal-development??

 

I thought you were playing because you cropped words of mine out of a whole post with which to give it more context. I thought you were playing games. I see now that you were not.

Excellent rebuttal and, on the surface, quite logical. Here's the OTHER thing though...A fetus is disposed toward death no more/less than a fully formed human being. In fact, left unmolested, it will robustly divide and grow into a (in this discussion) human being. This is a force other than just molecules bumping into each other and it starts at conception. It is a LIFE force and it is precious because it is rare as far as we know right now.

Stop with the insults please.

 

I will correct myself, I was keeping my comment short because often times when discussing anything with pro-lifers doesn't really go anywhere. Anyhow, fetal brain activity does not usually occur until the last two months of pregnancy long after when women are actually seeking abortion.

http://eileen.undonet.com/Main/infrmdC/Brain_Waves.htm

 

I can't link articles at the moment because I am using y phone, but I can later if you want. In the mean time here's the names of a few researchers and bioethicists who give the scientific data you require; helga kuhse, Michael Tooley, Alberto Giubilini, Peter singer, Francesca Minerva. Minerva works at my uni and I've had quite a few conversations to her about the science behind it. Quite interesting and compelling.

 

No harm done then.

You are arguing a fetus has the same mental capacity as a grown/born human such that they do comprehend their existence in the same way? Can you give evidence to that claim please?

So you are arguing that life is precious and that because t is precious t should be protected? Why should life be protected if it has this quality, which itself is subjective. Life is not rare, let alone human life.

That was not an insult - it was an obvious conclusion drawn from your assertion , which you did not respond to. You called yourself a psychopath, by me. You insulted yourself, and your hypocrisy is noted.

 

No, I said it (fetus) does not typically self destruct in fact it is driven to thrive. The same thing will not happen if you throw the same molecules in a glass of seawater. There is a force...a life force...One need not site comprehension. A human being is also driven to live.

Your last sentence is key. Life is not rare on Earth but so far, we have found exactly 0 life as far as we can see and have explored around our planet. Therefore, life is indeed rare and life is a force that cannot be duplicated. For these reasons, I say that a human life is precious and, since a developing human life is initiated at conception driven by a distinct force (I call it the life force), killing the developing human being is the same as killing a life.

I wrote: If your life is PRECIOUS to you then you are a psychopath IF you believe the lives of OTHERS are not PRECIOUS to them.

The you write this trash: I guess you're a psychopath by your logic

There is no logic in your response other than to throw insults.

 

So you are oppose to killing all things that are alive then? You don't eat anything then except water ? Why stop at human life and not include animals and vegetation? They are also rare life that is driven by your definition.

Also it seems your reasoning that "I say life is precious" just means the reason why you think abortion is wrong is your subjective personal opinion, not an objective fact.

If you couldn't see how your own as hominem insult could be turned on you it doesn't matter.

 

Why stop at Negros, Jews, and other untermensh?

 

So you think Negros, Jews, and other untermensh should have no rights? That's messed up mate, you sound like a Nazi

 

What you believe is irrelevant. What you can rationally reason is entirely different and so far exactly zero.

Apparently you like to make up (*)(*)(*)(*) too.

 

Well said

 

When did I say that? You are projecting.

Now you are building on your false projection.

I never said 'I say life is precious' I TOLD you my reasoning yet all you seem to want to do is try to misstate what I have posted. So far, YOU have presented no reason why life should not be precious.

I think you meant "ad hominem" which is "an argument made personally against an opponent"......The comment you are referring to did not mention you personally. Any statement can be turned around as I have learned here at the Forum when discussing certain matters with certain people.

 

Rationally speaking, everyone has potential...there how's that? Stop with the ad hominem attacks.

 

Still zero as far as rational argument.

As I said you like to make (*)(*)(*)(*) up.

 

You can't prove a negative.

 

Exactly what is irrational? Please be specific, vague insults just don't cut it. Put up or shut up.

 

Sure you can, Atheists claim there is no God.

 

Because there is no evidence to the contrary.

Here's a humorous lecture by James Randi explaining why you cannot prove a negative.

[video=youtube;qWJTUAezxAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJTUAezxAI[/video]

 

So...Atheists claim there is no God..."Because there is no evidence to the contrary." I thought you said you can't prove a negative?

 

Did you miss the video I posted explaining it? It's like when I say, reindeer cannot fly. I am making that statement because there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

 

Do you believe in God?