Using a the website of a known antisemite/holocaust denier for proof Babi Yar never happened. David Irving — publisher of the website sued Professor Deborah Lipstadt for libel due to her 1994 book, Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory, which he claimed had generated waves of hatred against him. Reading his verdict, the judge said: “Irving has for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence; that for the same reasons he has portrayed Hitler in an unwarrantedly favorable light, principally in relation to his attitude towards and responsibility for the treatment of the Jews; that he is an active Holocaust denier; that he is antisemitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism.” Professor Lipstadt wrote in response. We won a decisive victory. The judge found David Irving to be a liar and denier, who promulgated a tendentious view of history. The judge was convinced that Irving’s account of history “flies in the face of the available evidence.” It was so “perverse” and “egregious” that his claims could not be “inadvertent” mistakes on his part.” In other words, these were not the type of errors that all authors make when writing books. They were deliberate falsifications designed to cast the Holocaust as a myth. We also proved that he was also a neo-Nazi, racist, and antisemite. We did so for two reasons. Firstly, to demonstrate to the judge the kind of bigoted and racist people with whom he keeps company and to whom he speaks. More importantly, we wished to demonstrate to the court that his denial was not ex nihilo, that it was rooted in his bigoted and racist Weltanschauung. In his judgment, the judge found him to be a “neo-Nazi polemicist,” a racist, and an antisemite. Ultimately, when it concerns deniers, we cannot speak of just facts and opinions. We must speak of facts, opinions, and lies. Deniers contend that their arguments constitute “opinions” and they should be part of the discussion about the Holocaust. But, as we conclusively showed the court, these opinions are lies, lies that deniers hope will encroach upon the true facts. One does not enter into a debate with a liar. We must expose their lies but not treat them as an “other side”. https://www.freedomofresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Brussels-talk-4.2018.doc.pdf A person can say “I don’t deny the holocaust happened”. Denying the deaths of six million Jewish people (as well as the Roma and Sinti, Germans with mental and physical disabilities, Polish people, Soviet soldiers, Jehovah Witnesses, homosexuals, and asocials (including unemployed and homeless persons, welfare recipients, prostitutes, beggars, alcoholics, and drug addicts)) is denial of the holocaust. I will not enter into a debate with a distorter of facts who uses links to the websites of antisemites and holocaust deniers as his main sources of proof.
Well, neither one of you two debaters seems to have heard about President Bush jun.'s law about antisemitism: Bush signs antisemitism bill into law 18 Oct 2004 US president George Bush on Saturday signed a controversial bill passed by Congress that provides for the world-wide monitoring of antisemitism by a special office in the US State Department. The signing ceremony was set shortly before the president departed for an election campaign visit to Florida, which has a large Jewish population. At a rally, Bush later said the United States would make sure that "the ancient impulse of antisemitism never finds a home in the modern world". As he arrived in Florida, his challenger John Kerry accused Bush of standing by while "genocide" raged in the Darfur region of Sudan: "The Bush administration has done nothing effective to halt this genocide. Words without deeds are meaningless especially when people are dying every day." https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/bush-signs-anti-semitism-bill-into-law Nor from two days ago: "....Katherin Meyer, IHRA Secretary General: “Holocaust distortion is often thought of less serious than Holocaust denial. But that is not the case. While Holocaust denial is often thought of outlandish and on the fringes of society, Holocaust distortion finds its way into the mainstream. Unlike denial, distortion does not question whether the Holocaust happened and therefore it is often treated as an opinion. But let me be clear here: it is not an opinion. There cannot be different opinions about the facts of the Holocaust.” .... Prof. Irwin Cotler, Canada’s Special Envoy for Holocaust Remembrance: “the new antisemitism is the discrimination of the denial of, the assault upon, the rights of Israel and the Jewish people to live as an equal member in the family of nations.” .... The discussion opened with remarks by @mlennartsson saying, "the fight against antisemitism, and to strengthen it globally, is a top priority for Sweden." https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/events/taking-action-to-combat-antisemitism ------- And so on and so forth. The way I understand this new UN department is, that even the bereaved Palestinians get punished for trying to defend themselves....like kids throwing rocks at the Israeli soldiers! That's Antisemitism, the way I understand it. I never knew about Bush signing a law to monitor antisemitism worldwide and that it has become the concern of the UN. What is the use of trying to debate something that has been forbidden to talk about? The original version of the holocaust is the only correct one because it has a factual foundation... everything else is guesswork? In my case I have to admit that I read about the HC for the first time in the late 1990s, when I found the book, "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century". That was a shocker!
Re: But the whole standard holocaust narrative is a scam. There can have been no genocide against the Jews if most Jews were allowed to live openly with some restrictions, other Jews were high ranking members of the NS Party and about 150,000 Jews were allowed to serve in Germany's WW 2 military with many earning Germany's highest military honors. All this was done with the full knowledge and approval of Hitler and the German High Command. Hitler even awarded honors to WW 1 Jewish Veterans some of whom were already in Palestine doing to the Palestinians what they claimed was done to them. Do these sound like things an anti Semitic madman would do? None of this is "whitewashing the Nazis"; these are simply the facts that have been heavily repressed by those who shape public opinion for those who incapable of thinking for themselves. Additional Facts I've related are: "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps."(1) Re: I've already done that but you still stick with those who lie. Two examples of those who don't cheat are: - EXCERPT " An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp experiences in a Toronto District Court in March 1988. She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having sexual relations with a Polish forced laborer. On the train journey to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her and the others that they would all be gassed at Auschwitz. Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go into a large concrete room without windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were about to die. But then, instead of gas, water came out of the shower heads." CONTINUED (2) - EXCERPT " A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of gas chambers during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing stories only later." CONTINUED (2) The two accounts above are like hundreds of thousands told to the Red Cross immediately after the war (3). What could be a more credible source than the Red Cross and why would they lie? I realize that pressure from the Holocaust Industry and the Victorious Allies has forced them to water down more recent publications so their earlier accounts are the most honest ones. Finally, I've repeatedly shown that the Holocaust Industry has been caught in innumerable lies and frauds yet you continue to "buy" their mythical "product". Why? So we don't keep going in circles, I'd like you to address the questions in blue. Thanks, (1) "Holocaust - Survivors who Tell the Truth" https://archive.org/details/Holocaust-SurvivorsWhoTellTheTruth (2)"Auschwitz: Myths and Facts" http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml (3) "RED CROSS DENIES HOLOCAUST!: 1948 ICRC Report: No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews. Most Deaths Caused By “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Germany By the U.S and U.K. Which Is A War Crime!” – ICRC PDF Here. UPDATE: In 2006, 58 Years Later, The ICRC Changed Their Story." https://truedemocracyparty.net/2020...ous-bombing-of-civilian-germany-by-the-u-s-and-u/
More links to antisemitic holocaust denying sites to prove the holocaust did not exist or to deny the murder of over six million Jewish people. ihr dot org =====> Institute for Historical Review The Institute for Historical Review (IHR) is a United States-based nonprofit organization which promotes Holocaust denial. It is considered by many scholars to be central to the international Holocaust denial movement. Self-described as a "historical revisionist" organization, the IHR promotes antisemitic viewpoints and has links to several neo-Nazi and neo-Fascist organizations.
That fraudulent description sounds like it was written by the same JDL (Jewish Defense League) that firebombed the offices of the IHR a few years ago. There's nothing anti Semitic about the facts but because IHR is credible, it posed a threat to the dishonest and profit hungry Holocaust Industry, I've already shown that the Holocaust Industry engages in fraud and deception so why believe the offensive anti German slander? Thanks,
Don’t you love the way some people think they have explained something with a few examples from a holocaust denial website or from a few anecdotes. Well golly gosh, I read a few anecdotes from a few people who say they have credible evidence that the earth is flat. Yup, the earth is flat because a few people say so despite a million pieces of evidence that says otherwise. Any person who engages in denying over 6 million Jewish people were murdered by the Nazis is engaging in hate speech and antisemitism. Using derogatory language against certain nationalities supports this. Only an antisemite would use evidence from an antisemite site to try to state this genocide did not happen. There are thousands of pieces of actual evidence that said it did.
So far all you've done is slander the majority of the people around the world who do not believe the physically impossible and long debunked stories peddled by the proven frauds of the Holocaust Industry. For starters, do you believe that the "human skin lampshade" story is true? Thanks,
I'm sorry, but you're among those who reject the usual historiography of the Nazi era. Everyone knows that here. If you claim something as debunked or impossible, others has to look very carefully to see if that's actually true. Now please don't be mad at me. I'm not calling you a liar again (as I did before because you said Hitler ordered no mass executions). You fight for your belief in Nazi ideology. You have to do so to make Nazis look good.
As MLK once said: "Hatred begets hatred; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness ... " Hitler's Nazis murdered innocent Jews -> A Neo-Nazi organisation denies that -> Descendants of the murdered Jews attack that neo-Nazi organization -> Neo-Nazis around the world take this to show that all Jews are evil at the core -> ... to be continued ... the spiral of hate is spinning on and on ... And Holocaust deniers provide the fuel for this evil machine.
What propaganda! The USA went out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. Its weaponry was filled with "precision" systems like JDAMS in order to avoid the casualties of traditional things like "carpet bombing" that covered whole areas rather than target individuals. Sensors and communication system were developed to increase "situational awareness" so that we would know, across the battlefield, where we were, where our friends were, where the enemy was, and where noncombatants were." We shared that awareness throughout the force, meticulously, to avoid noncombatant casualties. Sanctions accomplished almost nothing. During the most stringent sanctions, Sadaam built his massive "Z Lake" in his personal hunting area which later became Camp Liberty when we took it over. It had dozens of palaces and amenities like swimming pools and fine restaurants. Coalition headquarters was set up in Sadaam's huge private palace. It had gold bathroom fixtures and luxurious appointments everywhere. Again, during the worst of the sanctions he built enough palaces to accommodate all of his visitors and a special one for his sons Uday and Qusay. My first year in Iraq was spent training the "NEW Iraqi Army". I was assigned an "I-T" (Interpreter-Translator) who accompanied me everywhere. He was a recent Baghdad University graduate and we became close friends. Neither he nor the hundreds of trainees I dealt with even knew that the west had ever levied sanctions on Iraq. They never heard of it. There were many Iraqi civilian casualties in the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom, but few of them had anything to do with military forces. Sunni and Shia hatred ran deep. Sadaam kept violence under control with an iron fist. With him out of the picture, Sunni-Shia violence raged out of control for awhile. Bombings of crowded market places were common and mass shootings in a country awash in AK-47's were frequent.
What the US administration did wrong much later (or didn't), has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Please avoid Whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Nope, I didn't. I'm just alerting you that associating Nazi crimes with post-1945 American military operations is mostly wrong.
I never connected Iraq with WWII at all. It was YOU that brought up Iraqi sanctions.... nevermind... you're too disjointed to follow.
You compared a million dead Iraqi' kids to the Holocaust and said we did it with sanctions. I called that propaganda... propaganda.
MORE EVASIONS Re: So, now I'm a Nazi even though I have already stated that I abhor all forms of totalitarianism? Your desperation is really showing. I have no "Nazi ideology" and am only debunking the anti German slander inherent in your holocaustian cult beliefs. All I have done is to repeatedly debunk your anti German slander but with your gossip and name calling, you're still being evasive because you can't defend the nonsense that's been poured into your head. Rather than engage in honest debate all that you and @MuchAdo have done is to slander others while distorting and evading the innumerable facts that prove the standard holocaust narrative to be fraudulent. This is a debate forum but you won't debate because the facts are against you. Because of these inconvenient facts, you can't or won't answer the simple questions I posed in blue in my earlier Post # 2928. Please engage in honest debate and quit slandering, evading and name calling.
MORE SLANDER So, now it's time to slander IHR because you can't refute any of the heavily repressed facts they present. Because of the death threats, vandalism and firebombing of their offices, they are more of a target of bigotry rather than a purveyor of the same: "A Target of Bigotry" https://www.ihr.org/main/about.shtml EXCERPT "Predictably, we have come under fire from hostile sectarian groups that regard the IHR as harmful to their interests. Zionist groups such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the Anti-Defamation League routinely smear the IHR, attacking us as a "hate group" or dismissing us as a "Holocaust denial" organization. In fact, the IHR steadfastly opposes bigotry of all kinds. We are proud of the support we have earned from people of the most diverse political views, and racial, ethnic and religious backgrounds. The IHR does not “deny” the Holocaust. Indeed, the IHR as such has no “position” on any specific event or chapter of history, except to promote greater awareness and understanding, and to encourage more objective investigation. Articles and reviews posted on the IHR website, and presentations given at IHR meetings and conferences, represent a wide range of views. Each writer is responsible for what he or she writes or says. Accordingly, the IHR does not necessarily agree with the content or outlook of posted, published or distributed items. One prominent American journalist and author who has looked into the critical claims made about the IHR is John Sack, who is Jewish. He reported on a three-day IHR conference in an article published in the Feb. 2001 issue of Esquire magazine. He rejected as unfounded the often-repeated lie that the IHR and its supporters are "haters" or bigots. He described those who spoke at and attended the IHR conference as "affable, open-minded, intelligent [and] intellectual." CONTINUED
Whether that lampshade actually existed is irrelevant to historical facts -- the Nazi's murdered over six million Jewish people. Here is a film with footage taken by Americans in 1945 at: Mauthausen, Austria; Auschwitz, Poland; Belsen, Germany; Buchenwald, Germany; Leipzig, Germany; Nordhausen, Germany; Dachau, Germany; and Gardelegen, Germany. 'Death Mills (or Die Todesmühlen) is a 1945 American-German film directed by Billy Wilder and produced by the United States Department of War. The film was intended for German audiences to educate them about the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. For the German version, Die Todesmühlen, Hanuš Burger is credited as the writer and director, while Wilder supervised the editing. Wilder is credited with directing the English-language version. The film is a much-abbreviated version of German Concentration Camps Factual Survey, a 1945 British government documentary that was not completed until nearly seven decades later. The German-language version of the film was shown in the US sector of West Germany in January 1946.' I warn anybody who doesn't want to see piles of dead Jewish people slowly starved to death, starving/starved children, bags and bags of human hair taken from corpses, people burned to death (shot if not dead) -- don't watch it. This is history. This is what they found upon entering the Concentration Camps, this is not revisionist/denialist theories made up by anti-semites.
It's not that easy because HC deniers shot their powder decades ago. These days, "Holocaust Revisionists" are just plain ridiculous. They urgently need new theories and new historical insights to reignite the debate.
Re: No, it is a fact that the "human skin lampshade", "human fat soap", shrunken heads, "human skin pocketbooks" etc are just a few of the deliberate frauds used by Allied propagandists & complicit Hollywood hoax masters to deceive anyone gullible to believe them. If the fraudulent Holocaust Industry(1), (2) will lie about these fakes to dupe the gullible and shame German citizens, what else would they lie about. Well, the "6 million Jews" murdered, starving, endangered etc has been used over 150 different times(3) and is as meaningless and contrived now as the other times. It is a fabricated number made up by Simon Wiesenthal and mindlessly thrown around even though Jewish sources show its impossibility(4) The grotesque hoax, "Death Mills" (5) employs the same macabre fake lampshades, shrunken heads and even supplements the piles of dead bodies with paid actors and dead German POWs and civilians for additional shock effect. You still haven't explained why the Red Cross found no evidence that the Germans committed the atrocities you've accused them of.(6). (1) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (2) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED (3) "167 newspaper and other references to "Six Million Jews" 1900-1945" http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/6Mx167.html (4). "Was there Really a Holocaust?" https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED (5) “The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder” https://archive.org/details/TheDirectorOfTheHolocaut-KhazarExpatriateBillyWilder EXCERPT “Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as a rough script, directors from Hollywood were shipped to Germany and Poland to direct propaganda films for post-war use. One of the most notable of these was Billy Wilder, director of meny very well known films, such as "Some Like It Hot" with Marilyn Monroe." CONTINUED (6) "RED CROSS DENIES HOLOCAUST!: 1948 ICRC Report: No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews. Most Deaths Caused By “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Germany By the U.S and U.K. Which Is A War Crime!” – ICRC PDF Here. UPDATE: In 2006, 58 Years Later, The ICRC Changed Their Story." https://truedemocracyparty.net/2020...bombing-of-civilian-germany-by-the-u-s-and-u/
Re: You can start by showing where I have ever claimed that the holocaust didn't happen. If you can't support your fantasies with anything other than slander then you should not be posting anything. Now, please answer the questions in blue that you've been evading from Post # 2928.
Slander???? == the action of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation The correct term is libel == a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation. Unfortunately, if one is engaging in Holocaust denial and distortion, they are belittling the suffering of the victims and survivors of the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis. Holocaust denial and distortion are a form of hate speech that dehumanizes the victims and survivors and aims to question and justify the acts. It easily can be construed as antisemitism and a few other things.
HC deniers try something I call "victim-shifting". Hitler guys murdered many innocent persons but "revisionist" blockheads see themselves as the true victims. That really makes me want to vomit.
