Advice about forming a third party

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by Yuusha, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. Yuusha

    Yuusha New Member

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    Hello everyone, I'm new here, but I've been trying to understand politics for a while.

    I'm thinking about forming a third party because I find the Republican and Democratic parties completely unrelatable and corrupt. I also know that the existing third parties (Libertarian and Green parties) have a tendency of assuming that proportional representation already exists despite a winner-take-all system. I've also been disturbed by the way the Democratic party discourages anti-war individuals, civil liberty supporters and people who advocate single-payer healthcare, and yet they are told that a third party vote is a wasted vote. Well, I cannot support the Democratic party because when it comes to war and healthcare, I do not agree with them.

    I also realize that forming a party that is concerned about both corporate and government oppression wouldn't attract enough people. The existing third parties are usually for people who have already reached certain conclusions and are not likely to change them even in the face of reality, even if proportional representation already existed.

    I like the Justice Party, but I'm not sure if the Justice Party will be able to encourage people to break out of ideological ruts.

    And Americans Elect sounds like a corporate entity, Michael Bloomberg already has 0 credibility to me.

    I also realize that being an independent will not have as lasting an impact as forming a third party. I was tempted to be an independent, but not only would it be even harder to get on the ballot, but also the candidacy would revolve around me instead of inspiring others to do good things. I do not want people to depend on me, I want people to have to self-confidence and the tools to achieve great things. I want the focus to be on solving problems rather than power.

    Thanks to a good friend, I'm thinking about creating a temporary party called the Idea Party, where the rules are not ideologically based, but rather the rules of the party are meant to increase the quality of debate (for instance, tackling social problems without resorting to racism, picking the most humane solutions first...). My goal is to attract as many people as possible to the party while creating an atmosphere where people can look at political issues with greater lucidity. This project is important to me because I know that without the input of others, I cannot achieve much because I'm only knowledgeable in a few areas. But that input must be of decent quality in order to be usable in brainstorming and decision-making.

    How do I intend to win? I hope to win with karmic points instead of campaign contributions/lobby money/bribes. In other words, I hope that by reaching out to people and neighbors in a county, I can get recognition.

    I also think that local media will mention me at least once. I do not expect much from national media because of their conflicts of interest from ad money (and anything non-corporate may be portrayed as something ridiculous).

    I intend to only run for county office (or state office, but I think it'll more likely be county). Here are my three personal priorities.
    - I realize that the economy must be redefined (with a few intermediary steps to ensure access to imports and travel with electronic dollars based on the positive things people do every day because countries like Colombia and India will not see the need for a resource-based economy right away) in order to ensure people's needs and reflect more accurately physical and social realities. It is possible to reduce the role of money and increase the role of the ecology (ie how much water is available to do things etc.) in the economy.
    - I realize that democracy must be redefined (and hopefully the Idea Party can open up the potential and self-confidence of the American people. It won't happen overnight, but I think it will be a beautiful process) in order to be more accurately called a democracy and to make it more workable. There should be a focus on voting on ideas (people would be able to contribute whenever they want to and in whatever domain they wish to contribute). Only on occasion should there be an election of people for specific tasks such as implementing a healthcare program or reducing tensions abroad until the task is done. I want to reduce the burden of power, reduce the impulse of elected officials to be in power for life, and reduce the urge of a politician to desperately try to know everything.
    - I also want workplaces to be more democratic, positive and honest. People's talents are sorely under-used. When money is the priority rather than providing a good product or a good service, corruption can occur if quality and cost are incompatible, and the temptation to sell out exists. When money is the priority, there is more of an incentive to perpetuate and prolong a problem than to solve it as well. Moreover, one's earnings are based on budgets, donations and profits after production costs rather than a person's true worth. The other problem is that when workplaces are monarchic, one has to hope that the person on top is good (it happens, but it doesn't always happen). If workplaces were more democratic, less corruption would occur. The priority of a workplace should be to provide good quality products and services, regardless of sector. We need an economy where it would be easier to make a lasting positive contribution to society (and that should be the main priority of a workplace). Too many good people had to quit dishonest workplaces, and too many people got fired or even punished for being honest. I want to change that because I think people deserve better and should live happier lives.

    So now that I've mentioned what my intentions are, I'm a little bit scared about ballot access laws. I live in Maryland, and I'm not sure how I can get ballot access if I have the chance to move to Baltimore County (which is the most likely place for me to get a full-time job in a wonderful workplace).

    Does anyone here have any advice about trying to get the Idea Party on the ballot? I think this is the best way to eventually reach a democracy of ideas. The focus on people and parties oftentimes clouds a person's ability to see the value of an idea, and I want to find a way to change that.
     
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    A third party simply harms the party that is closest to it ideologically.

    In my state of Florida, there are at least ten "third parties."
     
  3. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Example: The libertarians. Once a good bunch of people. I was one. Then a mass-influx of Birchers and Randroids rolled over the party and made it clear that my type wasn't welcome.

    Or look at any of the 3rd parties. They tend to have petty leadership squabbles that make the two big parties look civilized. We don't doubt your intentions are good. But if you gain any traction, you will attract many people who lack those good intentions, or who have a version of good intentions that doesn't include you.

    Are you ready for that? Politics is a nasty business, and founding a party is very different from keeping one.
     
  4. Yuusha

    Yuusha New Member

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    Thank you for your input perdidochas and mamooth.

    @perdidochas

    Concerning third parties taking away from the two big parties, well if the two big parties were more open-minded, fine. But I find the ideological limits of the two big parties (as well as the ability to speak out against people like Rahm Emanuel or Scott Walker) too narrow, way too narrow, for people such as myself.

    I did take the time to visit the website FairVote last night, and perhaps one solution could be to try out a city that has instant run-off voting, where people can pick their first, second or third choices. If there is a majority vote, there is a winner. And if there isn't a majority vote, the votes for the last-place person (among the preferences) are given to whoever was chosen more (at least from what I understood about the concept). It reduces negative campaigning because candidates are less desperate to try to be the only winner, and it reduces the "spoiler" effect if another person wants to enter the competition.

    Of course lobby money is still a problem, but it gives lesser-known candidates a better chance, and it makes room for more people.

    @mamooth

    You do have a point, I do not want my party to become a joke, and I must keep in mind that there is only so much control a founder has. I was just impressed in my daily life by the way people talk intelligently about issues that directly impact their lives (they talk about their concerns without any agenda involved, and I genuinely learn something new, or their contributions help me lead to breakthroughs), but when it comes to candidates and parties, that insight gets lost in many cases. I wonder how to deal with that...
     
  5. FxTrader

    FxTrader New Member

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    I think a major third party would be great, provided it has good leadership, etc. As someone on CNN said, "Most people are between the 40 yard lines. It's our politicians who are extreme."
     
  6. SamVimes

    SamVimes New Member

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    I'm voting for a new party. Republicans and Democrats are just two wings of the same corporate party. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.
     
  7. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    What was That ideological differences again?

    missed a ideological difference ?

    lets see the Ideology of Nationalism ?

    dosen't this virilent now decayed and rotten ideology permeate all 'Official'politics" ,third party in the US means a party of workers for workers By workers!

    whereas ,tearepublicans and democrates are for the rich ,of the rich .
     
  8. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    There is a Third independent non-Capitialist party its called the SEP [US]been going since 1921.

    Thats the Socialist Equality Party a party of the Working Class not capitialist type.
     
  9. Yuusha

    Yuusha New Member

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    @philxx

    I am a nationalist only in the sense that I care about the situation of the United States, and that I want Americans to live happy and healthy lives. If I have a chance to be more knowledgeable about the situation of other countries, I'll seize the opportunity as well.

    I'm afraid I don't really agree with the goals of the Socialist Party (yes I did bother looking at their platform, just to make sure I could adequately respond to your message). While I am opposed to war, and I want the educational system to be much better than it is...Trying to inject compassion into a debt-based monetary system is not going to last. And then I would probably have a credibility issue given the bad rap of socialism. I'd rather have an economic system where the ego's desires are more in harmony with the public interest. I agree that compassion should be favored, but I don't think compassion and the monetary system mix. And then I support the concept of individual initiative so long as it supports the public interest.

    The monetary system has to be dealt with first, then it will be possible to talk about compassion and economy. I think both the individual and the collective matter, not exclusively one or the other.

    @FXtrader

    I think a lot of people feel like their problems are not being addressed. My only concern is that some people perceive me as "an extreme left-winger" because I am stridently critical of any corporate party (Republicans and Democrats, but I do spend more time criticizing the Democrats because I live in a State where the majority of people are Democrats.), even though there is a long personal story explaining the way I analyze things, and as a scientist, I try to base my views on physical and social reality coupled with ethics. And yes, I feel strongly about things, but that's because some things deeply offend me on a moral level.

    @SamVimes

    That's exactly how I feel. I can no longer bring myself to support the two parties, and I want something new. But I have to make sure that new party works. I may consider trying to see how the justice party works just to make sure I do not have organizational issues.

    Just to make things clear, the goal of my political party is not ideological. Yes, ideologically speaking, I do agree with some of the goals of the green party and the justice party, but being in those parties is not going to allow me to reach the goals I want. My goal is to teach people to learn to develop good ideas politically, to make sure an idea has a solid basis, can be backed up...Because I have noticed that the biggest problems in politics are:
    1. Some people have a tendency of basing their views on nonsense to some degree.
    2. Some people sometimes base a view simply on the basis of disliking a person for superficial reasons. If a person is emotional or has flaws that are not very relevant to policy, it is not a reason to not take a person's ideas seriously. However, flaws such as sociopathy are reasons not to take a politician seriously.
    3. Ideology usually makes people engage in double-standards or cognitive dissonance. It is so hard for me to explain things to people as a result, it really is.
    4. Some people do not use the highest form of ethics when dealing with a political problem.

    I'll keep on working on my goals, experience and myself before launching this idea. Thank you for your input.
     
  10. CoolWalker

    CoolWalker New Member

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    First, people have to know who you are and trust your judgment. "You" have to have a plan to get started and it would be advisable to have a few million dollars in a bank to start advertising the party and that you're looking for new members. You have to find a building and hire people to man the phones, handle the books etc. In essence this will be a business, so a degree in Business management would be advisable. Then you will have to make your platform, one that is acceptable by many people, that takes polling and that takes mega-bucks. Then find people who think like you and are willing to run for office. Then you hire a private detective firm to check their background to make sure they are squeeky-clean. Then work hard for about 20 years building your base. That's a good start.

     
  11. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    Luckily the 3rd party already exists in the USA its called the SEP[US],the Party of opposition to Capitialist austerity.

    A party of political principle ,spotless history ,steadfast in the defence of workers ,a party of all against the capitialist few.

    Oh ,and a Party of Democracy fused with Centralism,Democratic in mind United in Action.

    Verses ,the democrats and tearepublicans ??!!

    No contest really.
     
  12. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Your advice pinpoints at once one of the imperfections of democracy which favours the rich and ends up often getting men of mega-bucks but mediocre quality to the highest seat of power. Clever, abled people with only a fistful of dollars but a true heart to serve the nation have little chance of entering the White House. At most they could only stare at it and dream from a distance.

    Why waste so much time and tons of mega-bucks to elect men of mediocre quality into office when so many geniuses can be found in political forums?
     
  13. Yuusha

    Yuusha New Member

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    @Coolwalker

    Yes, I will have to get recognition, and I think helping out neighborhoods in a genuine manner is the way to go. Some people may not like me for various reasons (either my sheer bluntness, the fact that in the past, my social skills have been weaker than my intellect...), but I'm a good person deep down, and the people who do like me know I'm kind, I try to be optimistic, and I try to be intellectually honest, I try to have *some* tact, I'm working on emotional self-mastery, I do my very best physically, intellectually and morally...

    I will set up my own background checks for sure and have individuals who can read people double-check. Of course my background checks will include corporate crimes in addition to the usual stuff. This is important because I know the establishment will try to make non-establishment people look bad, so if people have nothing against them, at least the smear will look like a lie. And if the media exaggerates small personal flaws, it should be ignored. The flaws people should really be worried about are not played up by the media.

    In addition, in order to join my political party, people will have to be willing to develop certain qualities (to improve the quality of political ideas) in order to get in. I acknowledge that these qualities will not be acquired right away, but if people are resolute enough to develop those qualities, they can come in.

    I think discovering Roseanne Barr was important to me because I realize I shouldn't be ashamed of my personal flaws or my eccentricities. She's totally impervious to the establishment's demonization machine as a result.

    My platform is basically the stuff many Americans think about deep down, even though the mainstream media, their jobs...can distract them from those thoughts. However, I think what Americans will take time to embrace is a solution where the tug of war between the 1% and the 99% will end (which is why I'd rather think about an economic system where it is natural to do good things than to have endless conflicts between economic interests). I think it is more important to do what is right than to be popular, my efforts and intentions will be recognized someday. Already I think I have more recognition now than in 2008.

    However, I have to be very, very careful with the financial stuff, that is exactly what has ruined the two big parties (I agree with reedak here). The parties that have millions of dollars from lobbyists and corporate donors have sold out and churn out unbelievably bad ideas. I have no desire for my party to be a Wal-Mart.

    I'll try to minimize the need for finances in order to reduce the risk of selling out. I'll have to see how many positions can be filled in by volunteers and how many will require hiring people. The Idea Party will focus less on getting campaign contributions and focus more on getting karma points (recognition through genuine good deeds in the community and in the process becoming knowledgeable about social and ecological issues) in order to be well-known without selling out.

    I work at a small non-profit (and I did have a brief stint at a small business), and what I think I can do is treat the political party like a non-profit that carefully looks at the quality and source of its donations. Perhaps I will focus less on paying for advertisements (because an honest politician just cannot win through that route, especially with the corrupt SuperPACs) and focus more on hiring a small group of people for very specific tasks such as gathering signatures to be on the ballot or promote instant runoff voting to have a voting system where more than two parties can get enough votes. The political party I intend to set up will be like a mom-and-pop business or a small non-profit. It'll be less known, but quality will be guaranteed.

    I think the Idea Party will focus on cities where Instant Runoff Voting exists (the concept of spoilers will not exist there). In other districts where Instant Runoff Voting does not exist, the Idea Party will try to unseat one of the two parties that people are less likely to vote for.

    I've graduated with a geology degree, and I don't have the strength to get another degree at this point. But what I can do is
    1. Learn how other third parties work (especially this year, the green party has a very interesting selection of presidential candidates, including two environmental health experts Jill Stein and Dr. Kent Mesplay, and Roseanne Barr has a record of asserting herself and being herself against great odds in the media industry. While Nader has done some good things, Ralph Nader is too selfish to give other people credit, he didn't even mention the merits of the 2012 Green Party candidates. And then Cynthia McKinney made the Green Party look like a joke in 2008 by making statements she couldn't back up, even if she did have anti-war credentials) because I have heard that it is better to have that kind of knowledge before striking out on my own. It's always better to start a small business, a non-profit or a political party with prior experience in an existing business, non-profit or party in order to know what works and what does not while pursuing better objectives.
    2. Look online on how to set up a party or a business...And at the library of the non-profit I work at, I can consult books where I can learn how to raise funds ethically.
    3. Get experience to be an expert at something (I'm acquiring loads of environmental experience right now, but I think it would also be cool if I had experience knowing how the political process works and making it better)

    The other thing I am looking into is how psychology influences politics, it makes me see how "facts" are not enough to turn things around. And I see how people's morals vary. Yourmorals.org has a pretty interesting study that helps explore that process.
     

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