Aid to Gaza suspended after Israel murders World Central Kitchen workers

It was Johnson who stopped supporting our troops after the Tet offensive regardless of who was President when Saigon fell. The domino theory was right. Although the US had stopped the communists in Vietnam the victory was given away, the communists took over, and millions died in "killing fields" all over south east asia. Biden is trying to do the same in Gaza by snatching defeat out of the hands of sure victory.

Again you demonstrate no understanding of history.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Featur...ive ended in,thousands of enemy fighters died.

 

Time has told. Learn from history.

 

Absolutely. We didn't know why we were there.

In fact, we thought we were supposed to be fighting the Sunnis! Then there were the fiascos with banking, fuel, the Shiite militias, etc., etc.

Plus, our allies were clear that we were making a major mistake. We lost more than a trillion dollars and thousands of our best kids.

 

That is meaningless. Palestine has never been a nation state. The move by the PLO acting as governance of the West Bank will never go through. A two state solution is not possible without security by Israel.

What is your concept of how a Palestinian nation would work in the West Bank? If it involves Israel completely pulling out and leaving the PLO in charge the same thing as what happened in Gaza in 2006 will happen in the West Bank except it will be Hexbollah launching rockets (they actually are now) into Israeli neighborhoods.

Learn from history.

When else in history has a democratic government been condemned for defending itself against attacks from terrorists??

 

We won the war in Iraq after the surge. Iraq was a safe, secure, and stable place with US security and would have been the second nation with a democratic form of government in the middle east.. Obama gave that all away. Another give away by a progressive Democrat. Biden is trying to do the same in Gaza.

 

We had the war won and Johnson gave it away. Millions died as a result. Learn from history.

 

"...thousands of enemy fighters died."

That's not an objective. And, those "enemy fighters" were defending their country against a world super power.

The thing to remember is that 10 years after we left, I could book a vacation in Vietnam.

As for Gaza, you have NO idea of the cost of genocide to US objectives.

 

I know there are some right wingers who hate Obama.

But, the fact is that Bush conferred independence on Iraq before he left office, and their government was absolutely opposed to our presence in other than helping them to achieve their objectives.

Yet the right wing military crowd continued to think that the US could carry out independent military operations in Iraq!!!

 

Again you demonstrate no understanding of history.
Johnson realised it was totally futile to continue to attack the Vietnamese because of American Imperialism, given Vietnam was no threat to the US. And it's also ironic that Ho Chi Minh asked the US for help against the French colonialists, and when refused he sought help elsewhere.
And if the US had helped Vietnam against the French then, they wouldn't have needed to build their remembrance wall to futility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Veterans_Memorial

 

The objective by the NVA and VC was to attack the south Vietnam capital which they did and were destroyed as a fighting force. Johnson gave up and did not fight to win. Millions died.

The only genocidal organization in Gaza is Hamas. The objective of the US should be to support democratic governments against terrorism. Our allies are seeing that the US will not support democratic allies. That is the most damaging aspect of the Biden administration's current policies. If Biden truly cares about Gazan civilians he would fully support Israel's efforts to quickly end the war and eradicate Hamas so that the rebuilding of Gaza could begin. Biden would also pressure Egypt to open the southern border and accept Gazan refugees.

 

>> What do YOU think is required for statehood?

When we declared ourselves to be an independent state, we needed one other state to confirm by forming diplomatic relations with us.

That first state was Morocco.

Palestine has 193 states carrying out diplomatic relations with them.

 

Obama gave Iraq away. That is the historical record. We pulled out of Korea too soon after WWII with disastrous results. We now still have ~ 40,000 troops in South Korea. The same could have happened in Iraq but Obama gave it away to Iran.

 

Which is why Iraq is in such a mess now, and why ISIS etc was created.
And nothing was achieved in Afghanistan either.

 

The United States was a nation state. Iran monitor can explain the difference between a state and a nation state.

 

Their objective was to continue as an independent state.

That could not happen until the USA was removed.

It's hilarious to see you point to Johnson and not Nixon.

 

Yes. It's because Obama pulled all our security troops out of Iraq. If we had kept ~ 40,000 troops in Iraq there would be a democracy there, ISIS would not have been formed, and a very real check on the behavior of Iran would have existed. Obama gave that all away.

 

We became an independent state by declaring our independence, winning our war with England, and having a second state recognize the new independent state of the USA. Morocco was that second state that confirmed our statehood.

You didn't answer the question.

>>>What is the process for creating a new state today?

Put another way, what has Palestine not done, as they do have independence and their government has been diplomatically recognized by 193 members of the UN - all clearly states.

 

South Vietnam could have existed as a nation state. We had effectively destroyed the NVA and VC in southern Vietnam. Instead millions died. Johnson pulled the plug in Vietnam. Nixon got us out of the quagmire created by Johnson.

 

No. Once they because independent, we had no right of occupation nor did we have a right to carrying out independent military operations.

I think you may be forgetting that independence means something.

 

You don't understand the difference between a state and a nation state. Further discussion is pointless until you understand the difference.

 

The US divided Vietnam in two!!!

Under the USA, there would be no Vietnam as there is today.

 

We had the responsibility to protect the newly created democratic government in Iraq. None of the Iraqi's wanted us to leave although there was public bluster for nationalism signaling. Again read the history.

 

Just like Korea was divided in two. There is a northern third world half and an economic super power in the south. The same could have happened in Vietnam.

 

OK, state the difference.

Remember that a nation is a people and a state is a government demarcated by a physical border.

The issue here is statehood.

What do you think is the process for becoming a state?

 

NO. Once they were independent, we could offer them help to meet their objectives.

They were very much NOT interested in the US carrying out independent military operations in Iraq.