American Public Schools. Should they continue to be funded?

"Cumulative reality"...?! What is that? Is it something I can see, or touch? If your "cumulative reality" is real, why can't you PROVE that taxing private property indiscriminately to fund public schools enriches everyone who is forced to pay -- whether childless, or not? You can't! It's all just imaginative socialist spew....

As far as all the "horror show" drama you tried to inundate the whole issue with -- forget it. None of us here is going to fall for stupid conjecture like that. Crimes are committed every day, in SPITE of the public school systems. The answer to crime is sure and certain PUNISHMENT. You like education? Then I suggest you re-read, Fyodor Dostoyevsky's masterpiece, "Crime and Punishment".

 

It takes 9 months to produce a child. Then another 4 or 5 years until they attend school.

How much should a person pay for that child's schooling, and when, if they haven't been contributing all along?

Well, you obviously did not benefit from the schooling that you were provided as a child, since you seem to believe it isn't worth your investment.

 

weird question, of course they should be funded.

yes, continue to fund them,

yes, school choice should be part of every city/county

yes, we need to address the issue of bad teachers, bad schools, bad systems which circles back to school choice.

IMO our local public system is amazing, I had a wonderful school experience in the 70's and 80's and my kid had an even better one with dual enrollment offerings and such. The KEY was that my parents, and myself as a parent were proactive in the selection process when we chose schools, we didn't just wing it. We also paid attention to what was going on daily, to a degree, I most certainly wasn't a helicopter parent, but I dam well knew how classes were going, checked in on homework, spoke to teachers when necessary and instilled a "school = success" mentality and it paid off in a big way.

You get out of school what you put in it, even the worst school out there has a valedictorian and Its a very safe bet he or she isn't a dummy with lazy parents either. IF parents care enough, you can find good schools for your kids.

 

AFM, As the late Strom Thurmond said, "If government funds it, government controls it." (If memory serves me correctly, I believe that Old Strom stated this back in the 1990s)

Here is something from Thomas Jefferson:

 

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly but the issue is taxation of people who are either childless or moved to an area after their children have finished schooling in another district. I agree with Pollycy in that this is not right nor should it be done. Too much money in taxation goes towards "education" when it really does not, is another problem. State Lotto was supposed to fund education, yet it does not. In all reality, taxes go into a slush fund and are used for things that the "tax codes" do not mention. Money to MOST politicians is "viable" excuse to buy votes by authorizing and approving of "special" projects to buy votes through employment. Am I cynical, very much so.

 

I am of the opinion that funding schools falls under the same category as funding defense, Road systems, utilities, etc. Necessary for general public.

Would I be up in arms if we reduced the property tax burden slightly and then asked for parent contribution directly into the system? absolutely not.

However you can make the same argument for somebody who doesn't want to fund the air traffic control system upgrades if they never fly, the national highway system if they never leave town, etc etc.

So personally, I'm ok with status quo, I only had one kid so I probably overpaid. But I also stayed in the same home for 24 years so my tax base is one third of what my neighbor's is and he's a snowbird/grandparent so he definitely is overpaying @ 5k vs my 1600.

Leave it "as is" would be my vote, even though I'll be overpaying as long as i own my home since my kid has graduated already.

 

School vouchers. Parents decide.

 

Spim, there is a slight difference, and here it is: we are not directly taxed to fund air-traffic control system or NORAD, but we are directly taxed on property to fund schools, that is the difference. All other taxation is comes from slush fund, which is why I mentioned, this old bird is not as ignorant as may seem.

 

You are attempting to mix apples, pears and oranges by calling them all fruit. The school voucher system is for parents who have children in school districts that have known failing schools. What Pollycy and myself are talking about is property taxation funding schools whether the payee has children in school or not. In essence, those who do not have children or children in school are being told, you have to pay regardless which is unfair taxation, such things tyrants do via fiat.

 

Crime is committed every day in the US, yes, nobody is denying that. But you are denying a basic fact that even you know but are too biased to come to yourself. Public schools give those with zero options some "Shitty options but options nonetheless". The second you deny the lower and middle classes those options, especially the lower class, you are going to see crime increase to 3rd world levels against the middle and upper classes. It's simple and direct. We as a society are paying for a crime/health/economic "buffer" against chaos and it is called public education. Everyone at the top knows this is true.

 

Sure I don't need to nitpick with you on it and you bring up an excellent point but then again we're all taxed on the library and only a small percentage use that too.

I would have to look at my tax notice to find out what I really paid for schools last year it couldn't be that much. I'm only paying $1600 for everything.

So there are federal dollars contributing..? I dont th think my local school system is entirely funded locally but maybe im wrong.

 

I'm not mixing anything. Taxation funds education - my statement makes no distinction on how that funding is applied.

We all benefit from education just as we all benefit from police forces, the US military, and highways in Florida regardless if we ever call the police, are involved in a war, or drive a car in Florida. The taxation is fair. If you don't like it then move to another country or change the law via your elected representatives. No one can let their personal definitions of perfect change the good of public education policy.

 

Ok, if you want to say that the things you mentioned are good, I will let that alone. As for highways, they are good, but are under funded. Usually, local fire departments raise their own monies that fund raisers and donations, unless there are in a medium to large city. As for the po-lice, have you ever heard of asset forfeiture? If I say scam and ponzi, well.

As to me moving to another country, well aren't you the cat's ass? I am not worried about moving to another country, nor am I concerned with being forced to move to another country. The bottom line of my positions has to do with opposition to having someone else's will forced upon me. I have had enough of that in my life, so much so until I am of the mentality that I currently possess. In a society that is supposedly based on freedom from tyranny, tumult and oppression, I see that ti is alive and well. It must be nice, to sit in the proverbial catbird's seat and dictate what you want unto others.

 

No answer my question you keep spouting about not benefitting from the publicly funded education system.

Are you claiming you did not receive a direct personal benefit from that education?

 

It should be vouchers for every student and you and Pollycy present a false argument as when he claimed his parent paid property taxes because they had him as a child but since he has no children he shouldn't pay them. That's laughable. They, like all the citizens, paid them to support an education system in their community which he also attended and from which received a very big benefit.

 

I don't think anyone is promoting federal government involvement.

 

Asset forfeiture is a good thing if not abused.

Good luck with that "opposition to having someone else's will forced upon me" thing. We see enough of that in the Freedom Caucus who have their heads so tightly inserted that the place their definition of perfection above the good of helping the American people. So now we continue to have the economic anchor of ObamaCare dragging down the US economy. This could have been eliminated by implementing the first phase of the three part Ryan/Pence/Price plan. But the idiot mavericks were selfishly too interested in their own reputations above the interests of the American people.

All this complaining about tyranny is complete BS.

 

You may be in for quite a shock when you see how much of your total tax bill goes to public schools! I've owned property in three different states and the amount of the total property tax I paid to local public school districts was never less than 72%, and as high as 83%.... The remainder, which ran between 28% and 17%, is what was left for everything else, including county roads and bridges, many of which were continually in a state of near-ruin....

Bottom line: why aren't the PARENTS of kids in public schools required to pay the more?!

 

Funny stuff - this has been explained continuously. Are you Rand Paul ??

 

Cheap, cheap, ambush-shot, Bluesboy! If you're going to quote me, at least do me the courtesy of quoting me in CONTEXT! What I wrote (and what you've provided your silly response to) was this: "PROVE that an individual property owner always benefits by having property taxes levied against him to fund a public school system in which he has no (NO) offspring!"

That, sir, was my challenge to you, and you didn't even try to respond.. But why would you? You can't! The system by which we levy high taxes on all personal property to pay for public school systems is blatantly unfair! If you deny that, then, PROVE it.... My parents were taxed (along with all other property owners in that population), and I went to the public school. Quid pro quo, even though the system itself stank, and still stinks, it was "fair" in my case.... Now, how is it fair for me (or any other property owner) to be taxed as much as those with kids in the schools? Gonna try to respond, or are you just going to continue your evasion...?

 

Poll says it all. The vast majority of Americans do not want public education de-funded in any respect.

 

It has NOT been "explained" at all, except for those who approve of this tax-gouging to regurgitate the usual, time-worn, wholly-unproven pablum about how "we all benefit -- everybody knows... etc." Unfair is unfair is unfair, and not all the denials, evasions, or unproven assertions in the world are going to change that. Taxation is always rooted in MATHEMATICS, and against the relentless reality of math, socialistic feel-good nostrums, and schemes for "Peter" to rob "Paul" fail utterly....

 

Yeah, and public opinion in Nazi Germany was used to prove that Jewish people were traitors, thieves, and destroyers of Aryan culture. That's part of why we have a CONSTITUTION, to protect us from the whims of "public opinion" when it comes to deciding what FAIRNESS is....

One last time, "public opinion" notwithstanding, this system by which all personal property is heavily taxed to fund public schools is blatantly, and obviously unfair! It is the tyranny of the teachers' unions, government stooges, and parents who don't WANT to pay their fair share if they aren't forced to pay more that keeps it so....

 

Just the existence of a paid police & fire department covering your neighborhood means you pay less in mortgage or rental (insurance cost) than you would otherwise. Volunteer fire & county sheriffs are better than no fire department @ all, & response time for sheriffs may be worse than city police - but you still get some insurance benefit on your home or your rental. In some places, the fire department is also the ambulance service. (& please note that in many places, the volunteer fire department does excellent work. They typically have networking agreements - neighboring fire departments can be called in if needed. I know that there are lots of rural volunteer fire departments, not sure about suburban.)

It just depends on where exactly you live - in a city or out in the county. You can check your real estate taxes, they'll show which entity gets how much - usually as a percentage & also the actual dollar amount. For taxes on a rental, you might have to dig around a little, but your public library or assessor's office can help with that.

Unless you're saying there's never been a fire nor police call nor ambulance service to your neighborhood? If that's the case, it's a fortunate neighborhood.

 

$590 out of $1269.
Dam my taxes are cheap!
(Anybody from Cali wanna chime in? Lol)

I've already voiced my opinion on the issue of individual property taxes with children factoring in and dismissed it.