An Honest and Accurate libertarian Discussion Thread

you guys are a cult

 

that's not what I'm talking about. i'm talking about defense against enemies who are trying to conquer your homeland and steal your stuff, enslave you and your womenfolk, that kind of thing. libertarians can't form an effective resistance.

 

This is due to three things:

1. Imperialism, either from traditional capitalism or socialist expansionism. In both cases, material acquisition is at the heart of it.
2. A belief in universal morality. I think this is the bigger problem. Once a group of people convinces itself that it has the ultimate understanding of reality, and an objective, absolute moral system, it becomes very easy to kill others.
3. The power of the state to spread poor decision making across all of the society, as you suggested.

There is no doubt that statism is potentially lethal for some groups of people, but I think unregulated capitalism or extreme libertarianism is almost guaranteed to have the same effects, albeit less obvious.

 

As are you guys. But at least we're not a violent cult.

 

In a government with some form of democracy it is not what I want....it is what we want.

 

And what if you want to kill witches?

 

Democracy is the worst form of government....except all the others. -- Churchill

 

How nice. What a cool talking point.

And what if you want to kill witches?

 

That could also be done in a libertarian government. If people felt these witches are a danger to others they could vote to kill them.

 

Vote? How would voting work in a libertarian government?

 

So in a libertarian world if someone was going thru neighborhoods and killing people no action would be taken?

 

No votes would be taken, no. What would people vote on?

 

So How does a libertarian community handle a threat to the community. If the community agrees there is a witch and this witch is a danger what action is taken?

 

The plaintiff initiates legal action against the defendant.

 

Really?

Because you assume that libertarians are all pacifistic isolationists who have never served in our armed forces and don't exercise their Second Amendment rights?

I think you've go us confused with the "anti-war" peaceniks who are busy appeasing our nation's enemies abroad and trying to revoke our right to bear arms.

This may come as a shock to you, but there actually are libertarians who *gasp* recognize that we do need to project military force abroad to defend our freedom of movement and commerce and defend our homeland against the delusional idiots who think they can into our backyards, steal our stuff and enslave us and our womenfolk.

What we don't subscribe to are military misadventures such as the one that turned Libya into an anarchic, jihadist-infested (*)(*)(*)(*)hole on the Med. That debacle was engineered by a group of clueless "conservatives" and "progressives" such as Cameron, Sarkhozy and Obama who didn't know what the hell they were getting everyone into.

While I'm on my soap box, permit me to remind you of another thing - it's not just libertarians who are opposed or reluctant to get involved with such military misadventures - real conservatives, not the "neo-conservative" liberal warhawks who masquerade as conservatives, are opposed to reckless military adventurism abroad, too. The term conservative doesn't apply exclusively to the size and scope of government, social issues, the preservation of the values and institutions that not only enable the West to survive but to prevail, it also applies to prudence in relation to the projection and application of military force.

 

And then the judge orders the witch killed. LOL

 

Hah, a progressive that doesn't trust the judiciary. That's hilarious.

 

Typical signs of a cult:

http://csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm


- The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

You can't explain how government is legitimate, but you firmly believe in it and are unquestioningly committed to having it rule over you.

- Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

You attack libertarians for denying the legitimacy of your cherished state.

- The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry�or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

That just about describes every politician that you would vote for, and what you demand they do to others.

- The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar�or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
- The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

That's likely how you feel about your "side" against the other "side." Hell, it's the state of modern politics.

- The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

Who are your leaders accountable to? The ballot box? Don't make me laugh.


- The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

That describes your take on economic and social policy. If it's something you want, then the means are justified. Why else have police powers?


- The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

You will feel ashamed if you don't go along with the general beliefs of your political "side" of the political aisle.


Libertarians, on the other hand, can barely agree on anything. Ever been to a convention? All it is is bickering and conflict over ideas. No one follows a particular leader. Meanwhile, a DNC or RNC convention is as about as holy and ritualistic as the installation of a Pope.

It's you that's part of a cult.

 

Why do you want to have witches killed?

 

Why haven't you stopped beating your wife?

 

Guys, I'll be out for a while due to the new iPhone launch. Please continue the robust and honorable discussion.

 

Your FACE is a robust and honorable discussion.

Oh, wait...

Later, man. Good luck w/ the iPhone launch.

 

You asked about killing witches. I showed you how it could happen just as easily in a libertarian system. If you don't like the answers....ask better questions

 

No vote would be taken. The person would be apprehended and taken before the judicial system to determine his punishment.

 

And then the witch would be killed. What difference would the vote make to the witch? Lol