Anti-vaxxers crumble as every prediction fails to come true

Yes. What were the "lies"? What was the "tyranny"?

 

Nope.

 

Thanks.

 

Lol. You can’t be serious.

 

Where are your answers?

 

Not interested. You clearly are a troll.

 

Nope.

 

Yep.

 

I really wanna know what you're basing your claim on. We've discovered that you don't have any idea.

 

Lol

 

Very substantive. This discussion has enriched and enhanced my understanding of the issues.

 

Thank you so much.

 

The victims should have been the vaccinated, shouldn't they. How many times did you tell us that we are going to die soon. Maybe you didn't tell the thruth?

Or are we gonna die this summer?

 

Maybe to you that is what misinformation is. I have a fairly solid education in the sciences — pharmacology, physiology and anatomy, statistics, etc and if something appears false to me, I will use my own knowledge and the knowledge of experts to sort out what is misinformation and what isn’t. Generally, looking at a source gives the first indication that something is misinformation. Some of the information posted in this thread and elsewhere on this forum is blatant information and it’s not because I disagree with it, it’s flat out misinformation and nothing but. I don’t go to the news/media for source of covid/vaccine information.

 

And you are pointing out a major issue- how do we know what is legitimate. It's impossible to form an accurate understanding of something until you can collect accurate information. I totally agree with that, and I know from my own education that getting accurate can be extremely hard to do- especially if there people intentionally concealing it. This may be on the premise of "for your own good", but it's still deception.

I think in the past, say 40 years ago- what those experts told us was the best they knew at the time. Today, I think that we have an increasing level of contamination in these opinons. By that I mean consciously aligning descriptions to fit political pressures and demands. I think Fauci did this. Unfortuantely, the media has quit believing that truth and accuracy are more important than ratings or politics, so a lot of what should not be getting published- is.

If we get inaccurate information, we form inaccurate perceptions- but we also have limited ways to know we are doing that. To me, misinformation comes in two forms. The first is what most opinions of experts are- the best we know given the limits of information available to us. State of the art, always in the process of refinement. That's not intentional, it's the best we can do at the time.

The second is the choice to mislead. The reasons can be money, ego, power, or just stubborn, but the effect is detrimental when it doesn't have to be. That's the kind I object to. I also object to those resenting my objection to it. They are the roadblock to understanding.

I discussed the details of Covid when it first appeared with a couple of doctors who have also been my clients and friends. I know, as you do, that experts usually have information channels that the public does not, as well as the expertise to understand it. I value that, but I also temper it with my perception of the skill and integrity of the source. Fauci, in my view, proved he was willing to mislead.

Many people today think misinformation is that which conflicts with what they want to believe or already believe. I'm not one of those people. There must always be a degree of skepticism in what we think we know- because it is never completely right. However, sometimes it is completely wrong.

 

I've been vaxxed and boosted 3 times. I'm in great health.

 

I’ve never stated the vax would die. Why make **** up? Is it your nature?

 

Never got vaxxed. never will. I’m in great health.

 

Well?

 

Your opinion in this matter is based on your view of the US government. You would think, the way some people react, that getting a vaccination is the only thing the US government has ever told their population to do. I’d be way more concerned about the government forcing women to give birth to a rapists child. There are many things on a daily basis that one can’t do or there will be repercussions. Why do you think the government tells you not to drink and drive, to wear a seatbelt, to not shoot people in cold blood? Is it to create fear, doubt, and lack of confidence?

With a novel virus it’s very important to vaccinate people so their immune systems are primed to recognize the virus when infected. There were obviously extremely vulnerable people who needed as much protection as possible. The vaccines were developed to target the first version of the virus circulating in the population and it was actually very effective. As the virus mutated, it became less effective. The situation was ever-changing with the virus as the world learned and experienced more, and the changing directives and back-peddling were due to that. Most of the information at the very beginning from Fauci were best guesses based on previous pandemics and his knowledge of other viruses. His information changed as the world learned more. When scientists learn something new and different from previous knowledge, it’s not that they have been lying, it’s that they have learned something new. It’s too bad some keep insisting he was lying or not being honest. If you trace his statements over time with what was being learned, it’s fairly obvious he wasn’t being dishonest. It’s a shame the way people who lack basic knowledge vilify him.

What better decision can one make in the middle of a global pandemic — protect each other, protect yourself, do everything possible not to spread the virus. Who is ‘they’? The pandemic was global. Where one got their information was varied. The point was to slow down the transmission of the virus with ways that were available. I guess it was too much to expect people to do this voluntarily.

Actually, there are lots of questions where and how the virus got into the population. That is very clear if you read some of the scientific journals and actual books written about the Pandemic. Even your own government can’t agree on the origins.

The following link from the Journal of Virology provides a coherent and interesting analysis of the possible origin of SARS-CoV-2 — https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/jvi.00365-23

How about you state why you have the opinion that the virus absolutely came out of the institute at Wuhan.

It is highly doubtful that the SARS virus was being ‘developed’ into anything. The Wuhan lab was working with bat viruses as well as other coronaviruses. If a government was going to weaponize a virus, in all likelihood they would develop it in a small lab for that purpose with very few people involved and in a building that could easily be dismantled. This is not the type of thing developed in a huge institute that happens to have collaborated with the US, France, and Canada. It is also one of the premier research centres for the study of coronaviruses and has been studying them for years.

First of all, in terms of speed and limited research. Making a vaccine, is like making a recipe. It’s not like all of a sudden viruses were new and it was the first vaccine produced for a virus. Vaccines have been made since the 1800’s, prior to people even knowing what bacteria and viruses were. There is tons of research related to vaccines. Even the mRNA vaccines weren’t new. The first mRNA vaccine for flu was actually tested in mice in the 1990’s. The biggest challenge was delivery of the message — RNA transcript — before it degraded as mRNA is very volatile. With advancement in nanotechnology, they found a delivery method to get the mRNA into the cell where it could be translated into proteins which would lead to the immune system being primed against the virus. It was a vaccine thirty years in the making.

The other vaccine methods that were used for the vaccines were more traditional which why they could be rapidly developed. The vaccine was produced rapidly due to the whole world working together. The usual red tape of waiting for government approval of testing was slashed. The trials sizes were large enough and long enough. Recruitment of subjects didn’t take long because the public wanted to help. Usually, recruitment takes months.

A pandemic is worldwide and information wasn’t just coming from Fauci or the US government. Was it a worldwide thing where the Pandemic and the precautions many government took to keep the number deaths down, just a grab for power? I doubt that very much. It was a world scrambling to stop a novel virus killing large numbers of people. Trump was basically inept at dealing with it — he pooh poohed it and acted far too slowly and as result was forced to take more draconian measures. How much power did he gain? His actions caused him to lose power. Boris Johnson also waited too long and made mistakes — no power grab there either.

Your comments related to the virus being developed as a weapon make no sense. Your comments about the virus are misleading. Your comments related to the government aren’t exactly correct in some respects. What kind of honesty did you require? When the Pandemic started — they didn’t even know how it infected people; they didn’t know how fast it was going to mutate; they didn’t have any kind of vaccine for it initially… It was obvious what was happening in the US. Fauci was updating information as it was produced and Trump was stating bullshit. His poor handling of the situation resulted in the country with the greatest number of covid deaths. Most agree though, that governments were doing what they could to save lives and the population wasn’t happy about it but doing nothing would have been worse. It’s unfortunate that all the fake news cranked out by conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers made things more difficult. One should also weigh up the lack of information from your government with the actual ***** being disseminated by anti-vaxxers or those businessmen wanting to make a profit from selling useless treatments.

 

It's popular because of bias confirmation. And it's only popular with the tinfoil hat brigade.

 

Two points to your major dodge.
I think the virus came from the Wuhan lab-
Because some of people who worked their admitted it.
Because the statistical probability of a novel new virus erupting within the immediate proximity of one of the few labs in the world working on this stuff without being connected to that lab are astronomically small.
Because our own government was subsidizing the effort called "Gain of Function", going on at that lab and involving this kind of virus, which is a deceptive way to say- "Lets make this disease more deadly"

The idea that think or claim we are doing each other a favor by imposing our beliefs on people with other beliefs has absolutely no validity. You have every right to decide for yourself. You have zero right to impose that decision on anybody else. We do that in some instances, but it should be a rare and carefully weighted action because you are trampling freedoms without process. Medical professionals, doctors and nurses, people with the expertise to understand the situation and risks that refused to take the vaccine were fired. This is the process of dictators, and a very dangerous precedent.

IF this were a long-established disease and a fully tested and proven vaccine, it would be different- but none of those things were so. This was not fully understood, the vaccines not fully tested- and in fact, the people were the guinea pigs. I personally believe the vaccine has value; I have been vaccinated and boosted- but I would never force anyone to do so because I did. What's more, I took the shots because we needed to travel, and we couldn't do so otherwise- so the system forced that decision on myself and my wife.

Perhaps the best way in the world to hide information you don't want seen is to bury it in a huge pile of other information. Politicians do this consistently, putting special accomodations that would never pass on their own on the back pages of huge bills with nice names that are sure to pass. Lawyers get a supeona for evidence for specific content, and mix that randomly into a truckload of distractions. It's a tactic that goes on every day. Finding information that could be reliably confirmed and getting straight answers regarding the pandemic is still not available. Everything is conditional. In many cases it appeared they couldn't decide that a person who tested positive died, so they called it covid. It's vague enough that we really don't know anything beyond doubt, and there are a lot of reasons to doubt.

I'm a skeptic. There are a lot of things in life we should be skeptical about, and when people are dodging straight questions, I am always sure there is a reason they do that.

 

Lots of lies. I pointed them out in real time. I could because I have a formal education in biology/animal sciences and a day to day working knowledge of virology, epidemiology, and immunology. Fauci is either one of the most dishonest folks in public health or he’s completely incompetent. I don’t believe he’s incompetent. Many of the lies he told required competency to fabricate. Ones like (paraphrasing) “didn’t recommend masks because we didn’t know if the virus could be spread asymptotically”. He’s an intelligent, capable man. Unfortunately he’s dishonest and public health is not his top priority.

Posted September 2020.

Posted Nov. 2020

 

Nobody could spot the trivia lie. I addressed it later, below. In July Fauci directly claimed cloth masks were as good as medical grade masks like N95 etc. He claimed this was discovered in April.

January 2021. In January 2021 science deniers on PF were still believing the lie Fauci told about cloth masks being as good as N95 type masks used in healthcare settings. I posted this.

So in July 2020 Fauci was still claiming medical grade masks were equivalent to homemade masks. Ironically, he obviously knew better because they were also saying medical grade masks needed to be saved for healthcare workers! Why was that necessary if they could have just used homemade masks that Fauci said were as good as medical grade masks!?

Unbelievably, Fauci and the CDC actively recommended against and PREVENTED the use of N95 masks by the public until September of 2021. But there had been a SURPLUS of these masks since January of 2021.

I posted this February 2021.

 

This is a sample of the lies told. Here’s a few more.

Don’t get your panties in a wad. I’m not anti vax. Just anti disinformation.

There were many more but I’m tired. Probably wasting my time anyway as few are interested in actual science here. Most seem to prefer appeal to authority and emotion fallacy to science and evidence.