ARE WE ENTITLED TO AN HONORABLE CONGRESS?

So... you think that the total blockade of everything Trump tried to achieve and the 24/7 character assault and propaganda barrage were not a factor in the overall achievement record.
When you are in charge, you can do what Musk is doing right now- firing the people who aren't on-board with the management plan. No president can fire members of congress or any of a lot of other people.
And if the left wants to use the tactic of character attack, why is it wrong for those they attack to respond? No president in my lifetime has been so intentionally maligned at Trump, and i remember Harry Truman.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but those who abandon truth and can't give credit where credit is due- aren't qualified to hold an opinion. The lack the capacity of reason and judgment to construct one.
They can rant and rave- just not think it out and accept facts. nobody really wants government run that way- at least, I hope we know better than that.

 

The fact is that we have good rules- but we have no realistic enforcement. This project won't concern itself with all the miscellaneous ethics rules, which are mostly window dressing in terms of value. Only with the core elements of honor and integrity. Those rules are far reaching, and will cover about everything- IF they are enforced.

Imagine a baseball game where there are no umpires, and players make their own calls. That's the way rules of conduct work in congress today.

One of the most important things- is to keep it simple. KISS formula.

Right now- Only congress has the power to remove an unfit member from office. Despite felony convictions for fraud, bribery and a host of other things over the years, the congress has used it's power of removal...
TWICE IN THE LAST 156 YEARS.

That, sir- is job security.

When I did my bit in the army, one of the things I learned was how they were able to change people on the fundamental level, which is near impossible in the civilian sector. I turned down OCS,because my concept of leadership wasn't suited to the necessities of military discipline, but there are strong lessons there. Changing people in civilian life is a gradual process, as in decades- and you can't just give orders, to do it you must have solid role models and set examples. Examples of bad conduct in congress and leadership are being followed today by bad conduct in the private sector. If we can correct that, I think we will see the new models would be emulated as well- thus such a change go far beyond congress.

 

Which ignores the fact that the parties have both coalesced around a certain set of ideas. There are divisions within Republican ranks. Neocons are basically Democrats in favor of more military spending and more frivolous wars. Democrats are now composed at the top almost entirely of people whose policies will ultimately destroy the country but as long as they can hang onto their illegitimate power even as a Chinese satrap they don't care.

 

Well- you will just have to examine the plan when we present it. Just as it favors no party or politician, neither does it favor or disfavor any issue or ideology....
That's not to say those things won't be affected, but that it will not result as a direct effect of the proposal.
This solution is unlike anything ever proposed that we know of. We all see such a mountain of problems and issues we expect the solutions are similar in scale.... hasn't turned out that way.

 

That would assume that I can't get anything for myself. I am not filled with victimization, I dont think anybody owes me anything I don't earn.

I guess people are entitled to rights established in the Constitution, but that's about it.

Not sure what that has to do with entitlement.

 

What I don't understand about leaving them no choice, is how?
What ever gets put in place to honor or the door, has to be done by those people in that position.
I don't think they will ever do that to themselves. That's why there will not be term limits imposed on themselves either.

Voters have the power to impose term limits. Voters have the power to not have establishment career politicians. If voters so choose.

As for you earlier question to me that I missed.
I could have convinced myself to go Warnock, as I am entirely against all trrump supported candidates. Warnock had only 2 yrs in office so is not established career politician.
Or my other option is do what I did in 2016, I abstained on voting for president. As both candidates were too evil for there to be a lesser one.

 

When you believe things like "Qanon had cult like rallies led by General Flynn" and you follow #MSM and all the fake stories that you are fed, then yea, you think candidates are evil. Society is starting to wake up to the fact that the things we are being told a regular basis are simply not true. Russian Collusion? Not true, it was a hoax. Jussie Smolett jumped by white guys wearing MAGA hats? Not true, it was a hoax.

The list goes on and on.

 

Dude no president has compete control of the administrative state he gets to hire and fire the top 1/1000 of 1percent but the rest figure they're all short timers and just go on their merry way. This is especially true of state and the intelligence apparatus justice. Trying to change the direction any of the administrative state is headed is like trying to steer a battle ship with a card board rudder.

 

Entitlement does not have to be a legal grant. It is also in the form of what some might call self-evident or god-given rights or social right. It's what a rational, honest man has the right to expect when they interact with others. You are entitled to basic civility, until you prove otherwise.

Do you think it's reasonable and right for you to expect that an agreement be kept? That what you have paid for matches what is delivered? That the change you get back when you pay for something is accurate, not shorted?

When a person asks for a public office, is granted the position, swears to uphold the constitution and serve the people with no purpose of evasion- you don't think that entitles us to expect they keep their word?

It's what we expect that creates social standards- and sets the bar for acceptable conduct in our society. When you lower the bar- that's what you will get. When you refuse to settle for less than just and fair... that's what you will get too. If you want to live in a decent nation, there will have to be- expectations and standards, and consequences for those who won't meet them. The best consequence is that if you refuse to play by the rules- you don't get to play the game. Not negotiable, no delays- you're out. Works every time.

 

Not if it were up to Trump. He doesn't believe we even have a right to listen to his answers to questions about illegal activities. Or even his tax returns.

That's great! Did you think the same before you voted in the last Presidential elections, or is that a new sentiment?

I think we should be entitled to a minimum amount of transparency that includes full financial disclosure by people in office. And to their obligation to PUBLICLY answer questions to Oversight Committees about ANY illegal activity going on in their sphere of influence by any elected official. Which is just basic common sense.

Any politician who doesn't want to subject themselves to that, should simply seek a different career.

And, in response to your next question: yes! I do believe that applies to Trump, Biden, Hillary... ANY politician in an elected position of power. It should be part of a President's duty. Even if they have to set time aside every week to answer questions. But this should apply to ALL elected officials (including legislators) and all highest level appointed officials.

 

Hmmm.
If what you say is soo true, how did trump get electecd?
Why was he still relevant in 2022 and cost the R party further?
But, to your point, his chosen people did not do well.. But did any establishment incumbents lose? I don't think so.

But trump is a big and prime example of voters not caring about integrity, standards, or fair.
As long as the person will say and try to do what a partisan wants.

 

So, you intend to ride the Trump-hater train until hell freezes over? We already knew that. Your posts always remind me of driving past the hog farm on the downwind side.

 

Yet you voted for the most corrupt politician running the most opaque regime in modern history.

 

So you're going to ride the smokescreen train until hell freezes over. I have fully disclosed that YES, I do hate Trump for the reasons I have given (predominantly for punishing children for things their parents did, but not limited to that).

I have also given arguments, that are independent of that fact, about why we should all be demanding more transparency from all Presidents. And, of course, Trump is the perfect example to illustrate why, given that every time we find out something new, it turns out that criminal activity or abuse of power is involved.

You opened a thread about transparency. And immediately demonstrated to all of us that you don't actually mean transparency. So spare us the hypocrisy.

 

A false statement - clearly we believe - in general that - some folks are "entitled" to "Something" .. of which many examples can be proffered .. a 16 yr old passing drivers license is now "entitled" to drive

Oh but you say .. I didn't mean it in that way .. to which I say OK .. then tell us what you think people are not entitled to .. after resigning your "Anything" position .. which was falsified by example.

 

YOU DO realize that Trump is no longer president? That the current president is the most evasive and incompetent and possibly worst president in living memory?
No, you don't. You don't :"research" to gather facts. You work to gather evidence to support the conclusions you want people to believe, so you won't be lonely.

If you wanted the America of tomorrow to better than the America of yesterday, you would be looking forward to how we might accomplish that. Instead, you look backward to how we might punish the president you loved to hate and want to make future America all about that indefinitely.

There will always be a few people like you. Thankfully, a few.

 

The people .. in general .. are not entitled to an honorable congress... having voted in dishonorable people .. "Yes but to what degree" ? obviously you don't want accountants running the show .. people who follow every rule .. micromanaging every penny. The general soul wants "A Leader" .. someone who challenges "The rules" .. challenges the Status Quo.. as in general we have granted that the status quo sucks..

So what is "dishonorable" ? Lack of "honesty, Truth and Transparency. but "To be free fof deception, manipulation, evation" is a platitude too far from reality to be seriously considered.

This is not something to be spoken of in General terms and made sense of .. Specific examples are required ---such that proper law can be codified ..

How about this wording - "If Gov't Official votes for X .. in the face of Y" or Does X in the face of Y.

And the example is "If Gov't official votes against an act . . which seeks to stop the US Gov't from Providing "support" - significant military weapons and so on .. for the 911 Terrorist group Al Qaeda .. - and you voted for this guy again .. You may be deserved of what you got .. and entitled to nothing beyond that .. cause you voted for a scum bucket .. of the worst variety.

Agreed ?

 

Trump is RUNNING to become President. Which makes no difference to my argument. But will you demand this "transparency" you speak of from him too if he's elected again? If so, why didn't you demand it last time? My question, which you didn't answer, was if you just recently started to believe what you said about transparency AFTER you voted for Trump, but not before. It's ok if you did. People can change their minds. Just disclose that my sense is accurate and be done with it.

Oh... I see. So what you said in this thread applies ONLY to Presidents who are Democrats.

Never mind, then....

 

That was the concern I raised in Post #15. The OP answered it very well in Post #17.

Well, if we were to follow your suggestion about imposing term limits on all incumbents at the ballot box, we would have been forced to vote for Walker, regardless of his affiliations or positions. You have proven that doesn't work, because people will vote their biases, or abstain, regardless of any other factor.

 

Sorry but I DID mean it that way.

 

Tomorrow is coming fast, but you wallow in the past. Just rules- apply to everybody. You continue to rant and rage against Trump, but you turn a blind eye to Biden and all the shenanigans that have dominated the Biden administration and the democrats. This is the double standard- which is NOT the hallmark of honorable people anywhere.

IF you believed in transparency and honor and integrity, I wonder why you aren't outraged over Biden, the laptop evidence and a host of red flags that would tell any fair minded person the government had become a hustle and a predator- that sees the people and their freedom as prey.

Research kind of missed that. Again.

 

In democracy, it is not Citizen’s job to fall in line with the leader and follow order. It is the job of the politician/ elected official’s to bring them in to his leadership and lead. Seems like Trump doesn’t know how to lead or bring people in. At some point you guys must stop blaming others and see Trump who he is. He is no leader.

Off course Obama was darling to media, government and majority American people. Because that is what politicians do. That is politics 1:1. You draw people to you. Obama didn’t put gun to the head of media or voter to love him, he earned the love. Obama won two terms.

GW Bush was not popular among media and majority Americans, yet he won two terms and he managed government bureaucracy. Again GW Bush won two terms.

It’s not majority Americans fault that they hate Trump. It is not media’s fault that they hate Trump. It is Trump who is so divisive that people hate him. You can sit hear and blame this and that and “ deep state” is bad , and FBI is corrupt, CIA spy on Trump. Until Trump came to national spotlight all this government entity worked like Swiss clock under both administration. Bush didn’t blame FBI , Obama didn’t blame CIA, Clinton didn’t blame DOJ. But Trump came and oh my goodness everyone is against little Trump who can’t get out of the bed because everyone hates him. Trump claim he is a winner , he can stand up to dictator like no other. The guy can’t stand up to bureaucracy in US government , no wonder Putin played him like a fiddle. And then it all came down like house of card and he lost the election.

 

Isn't this "laptop evidence" from the past? Why are you wallowing in the past?

I have no idea what "laptop evidence" you're talking about, but it's impossible to take you seriously seeing that you throw this smoke screen about some made-up "red flags" and zero evidence, to try to hide PROVEN evidence that is very public now that your guy IS a criminal; while you try to convince us that this is about "transparency"

 

The FBI and the DOJ are corrupt. They now in the tank for the Democrats and do the Democrats' bidding. The CIA's chanter states that it is not authorized to conduct operations within U.S. borders, yet they are doing it. The people had better wake up or the government is going to become as authoritarian as it was in Eastern Europe.

Trump was thin skinned from the beginning. The Democrats waved with red cape in front of him with trumped charges which made him worse. I got off the Trump train after he kept going on and on about the 2020 election. It's over. Live with it. Move on to 2024. He can't do that. He should know that from basic civics.

But that does not give the Democrats the right to establish an authoritarian state which uses the FBI and DOJ to punish those who disagree with Democrat policies. That is the road to tyranny and oppression, and the people had better wake up to it.

 

You might consider that when corruption is the accepted standard, a gang of thieves will "work like a swiss clock", because they all prey on the same public and benefit from it. Deals are made to distribute the booty- You vote to include my pork paragraph to pay off my big contributors, and I vote for yours; we all win.... while the public pays the bill for getting screwed.

Trump, whatever his faults- set out to reform these evils, and without question that will generate confrontations. Now if you think that a smooth-running corruption is preferable to a reform confrontation of it, that is what you deserve- permanent corruption. However, people who think that government owes them honest and a fair shake don't deserve that.

Takes courage to challenge corruption. Takes none to submit to it. That is a choice- which unfortunately is imposed on all if enough people lack the courage to demand some honor from our government,.