Ask a Jew! What the Heck, why not....?

Moishe3rd thank you that was extremely informative.

 

When will orthodox jews realize that circumcision on their male babies is unfair and wrong?

 

What people have to realize is that the theory that humanity is 6,000 years old is a Jewish theory of their creation as a "race" apart from the Gentiles. They only considered themselves to be "men" and everyone else was trash. The 6,000 year thing is related to their creation. It has nothing to do with the rest of humanity. It's like 1776 for Americans.

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The thing is that they have convinced everyone else to engage in their ritualistic practice.

 

Sodom has to be rebuilt first.

 

That's an illogical quote because if the sovereign said "There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must not be attacked, towns which must not be besieged, positions which must not be contested" then the conclusion would be that those limitations must not be obeyed. The quote tells people to do the opposite of what their ruler tells them to do.

That's sort of like the Bible where there are two opinions about everything.

 

?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alCM3tS3QFI

 

The conclusion would be "There are limitations which are not be limiting" what would somehow also mean: Someone who never obeys is not really free

If someone fights a fight which has not to be figthened.

 

I don't understand your anger. Even at "deceiving children who don't know any better in an effort to indoctrinate them into a belief system."
What would you prefer? A Skinnerian Box? That's fairly scientific, no? Perhaps no indoctrination at all ala "Lord of the Flies?" How about a "Brave New World" that has such people in it?
The toilet training of Martin Luther used to be a classic theme in psychology (and Lutheranism, I think). Perhaps children should not be indoctrinated as he was?
I understand that you don't like religion and that your experience with it has caused you to find it reprehensible that anyone should believe in such things but - it is hardly rational to claim that religion per se is what is most harmful to children.

However, claiming a knowledge of Lutheranism and being familiar with Christian scripture is hardly a critical thinking approach to G-d and religion.
After all, I agree with some of your objections to both Christianity and Lutheranism.

It is as if you decided you hated the taste of brussel sprouts and therefore decided that all vegetables are vile and people who eat them have vile tastes...
It just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Genesis is the English translation of the first book of the Torah called Bereishis. A loose translation of the Hebrew word Bereishis means "Beginning" or Genesis.
So, yes, it is basically the same story.

As I noted before, in Judaism there are three opinions for every two Jews...
I suspect that a majority of strictly Torah observant ("ultra" Orthodox) Jews believe that the Earth is literally 5,773 years old and that Man was Created at the end of the Sixth Day of Creation.
However, the question of "What is a Day;" "What is Man;" "What is Time;" etc., has been discussed and analyzed by Great Rabbis for the last 3,000 years.
Rabbi Isaac ben Samuel of Acre, who lived in the 14th Century, estimated that, based on the Torah, that the Universe was approximately 15 billion years old.
14th Century.
Based on Torah.
15 billion years old.

So, there is more than one opinion on the Age of the Universe; the Age of the Earth; and the Age of Man.
I believe that G-d's Time is not Man's Time, as G-d is the Creator of Time.
And, I believe that, as Man was Made in G-d's Image, that the Torah is not discussing Homo Sapiens or even Homo Erectus, but "Adom HaRishon," the "First Man."
G-d Created Man by breathing the Spirit of G-d into Man...
And, apparently Man's body came from the Earth, just like all the rest of the animals...

So, no - many Torah observant Jews do not believe that the Earth is literally 5,773 years old nor that Homo Sapiens were created ex nihilo at the same time...

 

Never, G-d willing.
It is a Covenant that the Jewish people made with G-d.

 

So here is the kicker, what if you are indoctrinated to think, challenge, and prove that which is put before you?

 

I wasn't raised in a Christian house. My father's an atheist and the only discussion regarding religion was his mocking of it. Plus...I was an atheist for many years and for all those years extremely full of myself. In particular---I felt a deep hatred for faith and mocked Christians. Interesting how hateful Atheists can be.

Children raised without morality and without a clear understanding of right and wrong are vulnerable. I wouldn't suggest it. But when you have children or if you do---you have the freedom to raise them how you see fit.

 

And you think that concepts of morality and right and wrong require religion? I think that's a rather inferior way to try and communicate such ideas.

 

Yep, I do believe that right and wrong is defined by what God deems righteous and unrighteous And without God in the picture---right and wrong gets awful backwards. But you do what you think is best.

 

*L* You may have started out calling yourself an atheist, but I don't think you ever really got it, if you get what I mean. People determine right and wrong, not made up deities. We can and do apply our reason in determining right and wrong, at least for societal purposes. We also have our impulses in that regard, but why anyone should believe that those come from a deity rather than from within us as a result of our being an evolved social species is beyond me.

 

Who are all the different God's referred to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

 

Hey that's a great opportunity. Thanks for the offer. I always was looking in great sadness in the destruction of our Jewish communities during WW2 and it's depressing how few of the remaining Jews decided to come back. It's really depressing. They've been a part of this part of the world for so many centuries and now so few remain. At a town nearby is one of the oldest temples from the 14th century still intact. Only a museum now due to fact of the missing Jewish community.

While this may not be fully a religious question I am curious about your position as an Orthodox Jew on Israel. I heard that the really "ultra" Orthodox Jews disagree with a Jewish state, since it's said that only God ought to provide a country for the Jews. Or something in that regard. I hope I'm not making mistakes. If I'm misinformed, just correct me. I personally (as an Atheist) don't really like the concept of Israel because I look at those people not as Jews but more as former Europeans who now live in that area. In the end a mere century ago most of them lived in their homes in Russia, Poland, German, Hungary, Spain, etc. and I just wished they'd return back "home"... I miss the colture and only looking at the artifacts...

 

There is only One G-d.
The Names of G-d refer to His different aspects. In English, they would loosely translate to the Almighty G-d; The G-d of Justice; The G-d of Mercy; The G-d of Righteousness; The Supreme G-d; Etc.

 

If you read through some of the earlier posts, you'll see that I have noted that Jews need to repent.
One of those reasons is because we are still in exile - called "galus." Jews have been dispersed since the destruction of the 1st Temple and then, even more so at the destruction of the 2nd Temple 2,000 years ago.
The Land of Israel is the Land that G-d gave to the Jews.
We learn in our Torah that if we live as G-d commands us to live then, moshiach will lead us back to the Land of Israel and G-d will rebuild the Temple. Then, we will no longer be in galus.
Well - Moshiach has not led us back to the Land and G-d has not rebuilt the Temple, so... we are still in galus.
Even the Jews that live in the State of Israel are still in Exile from the Land of Israel.
Or... so it would seem.

On the other hand, for the First and Only Time in History, the Jewish People have created a State in The Land that G-d gave them over 3,000 years ago and, from which they have been exiled for 2,000 years...
This is a secular Jewish State. This is not a religious State. This is not the Kingdom of Israel. The State of Israel was formed by men and, its laws are not the Laws of the Torah...

On the Gripping Hand, the Jewish State of Israel is, indeed, a miracle.
The last time that G-d let His Jewish People be murdered and enslaved; and then led them to form a powerful country in Land of Israel, in the midst of their enemies, was three thousand years ago when He freed us from the bondage of Egypt.
According to the Torah, 3/5th's of all the Jews died in Egypt before G-d freed them and gave us the Torah.

So - when G-d allows Europe to slaughter nearly all of its Jews and then, miraculously, these same Jews create a Jewish State in the Land of Israel; defeating a multitude of surrounding enemies over and over again; creating one of the most advanced nations on Earth; creating a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-cultural nation with more freedom and justice than any of their neighbors.... Well - who knows? Maybe G-d has led us to the Land of Israel and is simply waiting for the rest of the Jewish world to arrive; or is simply waiting for the Jews Yishmalite brothers to make peace with themselves and with Israel; or is waiting for something else altogether.
G-d's Time is not Man's Time. So, maybe the Redemption has begun and the galus is ending.

Simple answer - Jews who are secular and non-religious view Israel as a Jewish State in terms of culture and aren't thinking about G-d.
Jews who are Torah observant view Israel as a secular State and that we are all still in exile. But! It is, indeed, a commandment to live in the Land of Israel and, long before the State of Israel existed, Torah observant Jews have tried for 2,000 years to live and prosper there. Always before, they have failed because after the Roman destruction and then the Arab invasion, the Land of Israel was desolate and a very, very hard place to live.
Apparently, that has also changed... Who knows?

 

You did answer an important part of the question I had in my mind, yet missed something else I had in mind, but as I read my post again, I realized I never even asked it.

By profession I'm an historian, and we were thought in college that usually after people are being occupied for 200 years or more, they tend to adapt and don't feel occupied anymore. They become citizens of their new country. In that regard I always saw (and still see) Israel as a too young country for it having a really own identification. What I mean by this is, that I think that while the people consider themselves Israelis they still treasure their historic European roots. Whether I'm right or not, I don't know. I've not been to Israel yet and haven't had the opportunity to talk to many Israelis. I just imagine that their roots in Europe which can stretch up to 2000 years still may play a major role in peoples lives.

If that is the fact, it's rather worrying that so few of these persecuted Jews returned to their original homes in Germany, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Spain, etc. where they've previously lived for centuries. I wonder if you may have an explanation, why so few choose to come back. This is also a fact for Jews in America who fled in the 20th century. If memory serves me right 12 million Jews lived in Europe prior to WW2, and now there are so few jewish communities. Most of them consist of "newer" Orthodox Jews coming from Eastern European countries rather than the old communities returning to their original home. Their wealth in culture, old temples, Torah-scrolls, etc. are falling appart or becoming museum pieces instead of the families returning and claiming their family's herretage. Thankfully the anti-Semite NAZI morons died out. It's terrible seeing these things fall appart. It's our history falling appart as well as theirs.

So the question is: Why don't they choose to return from Israel or the USA? I'd imagine that you talk to your parents and maybe even grandparents and that you know where your family originally lived..

 

The Romans hated pretty much everybody and they especially hated it when the population of a country they had occupied rebelled. The Romans also gave Christians a hard time until they decided to make Christianity their state religion. Unfortunately this newfound power didn’t make Christians love their neighbours more, especially not neighbours they had a traditional grudge against for having been kicked out of Jewish synagogues a couple of centuries before. A problem Muslims didn’t have with Jews which is why they mostly got along reasonably well with Jews until the end of WWII.
When Jews immigrated to other countries they were treated even more (*)(*)(*)(*)ty as we tend to treat immigrants these days. Jews always upheld their religious identity wherever they went, which kept them distinct from the local populations. In Europe they were not allowed to buy farmland or to become craftsmen, so they had to become traders and money-lenders. People don’t like people they are in debt with, who they think sold them a sick cow, who have weird religious rituals and a different style in dressing. Prejudices die hard and to be a brutal xenophobic (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) is not exactly a new human trait, unfortunately it’s a rather resiliant one. Even among Jews you’ll find a lot of them.

 

Evidently I was wrong on a couple of minor points, but it's noticeable that you again, ignore the bulk of what I did say. I mean, what about the timeline? Either Jews were expelled from Arab countries shortly after the 1948 war, and again shortly after the 1967 war, because of Israel, or it was a coincidence. So, which is it? Were Jews expelled from Arab countries / coerced into leaving, A) as a reaction to Israel attacking Arabs and expelling them from their land and homes and/or refusing their right to return, or, B) was the timing a coincidence? It's a pretty simple question, and relates directly to the point you are trying to make.

I never claimed that ''the entire Muslim and Arab world'' became anti-semitic at that time. Naturally, the Palestinians were the first to become ''anti-semitic'' because they objected to Zionist Jews, mainly from Europe, immigrating with the intention of setting up a homeland for Jews on Arab lands. Their Arab neighbours were next to become ''anti-semitic'' because they sympathised with their fellow Arabs. Nowadays, most of the world has become ''anti-semitic,'' because we also support the Palestinians, and object to Israel expelling them from their lands and homes. For recent evidence of this ''anti-semitism,'' refer to the recent UN vote on Palestine, or the recent EU debate on sanctions on products from Israeli settlements.

But really, you should consider the possibility that it isn't actually anti-semitism, and that it might really be an objection to the actions of the state of Israel. In particular, building illegal settlements, and expelling Palestinians from their homes.

See, maybe it isn't a ''Muslim thing'' after all. Turkey was the first Muslim majority country to recognise Israel, and was the only one which had a democratically elected government at that time. Although relations have deteriorated recently after Israel's attack on Gaza, and the flotilla. Perhaps you believe relations deteriorated because of anti-semitism, it has nothing to do with Israel, and the timeline is another coincidence?

As for India, you're the one who's trying to tell me that the Arabs hated Jews because their ''British masters'' did, and because of Islam. So, where was all the anti-semitism in India, even among the Muslim population prior to Pakistan being founded, considering the British ruled India long before they ruled Palestine?

No, the recent events in all of the above countries, at least began, as rebellions against dictators. Nothing to do with Israel. There is no need to ''suppose.'' All you have to do is ask.

For that statement to be in any way convincing, you would have to have addressed what I actually said.

Dusty

 

It was mainly the British and French who divided up the middle east after WW1. That was when the League of Nations existed, prior to the UN. I agree, the boundaries were unfair. The British and French could have left the Arabs to rule themselves, as they had promised they would, but the British in particular considered the Ottoman empire to have been a threat to it's trading route through the Suez canal, so small states with puppet dictators were preferable to another large state/empire, or whatever. Which again, of course, is unfair to the folk who lived there.

Palestine was the only place in the middle east which hadn't become a country by the end of WW2, which is when the UK handed the problem over to the UN. The UN vote on the partition plan was a General Assembly vote, so therefore only advisory, and not binding under international law. The partition plan also stated that any Arab living in the Jewish state, and any Jew living in the Arab state, should become a citizen of that state, upon declaration. So while I again agree that the UN vote was unfair on the Palestinians, it was never the UN's intention that anyone should be expelled, and/or refused the right to return to their land and homes.

Dusty

 

There are several reasons.
However, fist of all, your misconceptions about Israelis - Jews in Israel do definitely consider themselves Israelis and NOT "former Europeans." I don't know the exact statistics but I would guess that at least 50% of the Jews living in Israel are descendants of Middle Eastern Jews or elsewhere - more if you consider those that emigrated from Russia 20 years or so ago.
The main reason that this is true and, that Jews have not "returned" to Europe is - and I apologize if this offends you but, it is the truth - Europe Murdered nearly their entire Jewish population during the Holocaust!
They were totally wiped out.... Then, even those that did want to return - mostly in Eastern Europe, were murdered or, in the case of Communism, enslaved (denied their religious practices) Again! And, NOBODY wanted these persecuted and murdered Jewish refugees - before the Holocaust; during the Holocaust; and after the Holocaust; after WWII.
So - they escaped the Hellhole that was Europe and tried to make it to the Land of Israel or, to America where they had never been murdered by the government for the crime of being Jewish.
I would suggest that you study a bit more history regarding Jewish persecution in Europe for the last 1,000 years. The Holocaust was only a matter of scale, not of viciousness. Jews were murdered; persecuted; ghettoized; banned; ejected; and treated with total barbarity by nearly every single country in Europe over the last 1,000 years. The persecutions and murders were horrible. The Nazis merely made Jew hatred into a national credo and mechanized Jew slaughter in a modern fashion heretofore unknown to man.
Any Israeli with any sense of heritage or religion or any identification wish his Jewishness at all, would laugh in incomprehension in your desire to see Jews once more living in Europe.... This is not going to happen any time soon... Even today, the EU and the UN, with their religiously Leftist orientations, continue to find Israel as the most contemptible nation on Earth.... Ever wonder why? I would humbly suggest that Antisemitism has simply been transferred to a "politically correct" attitude towards Israel.
Think about it.

Meanwhile, here in America - Jews are prosperous and comfortable. Some do, indeed, make aliyah and go to live in Israel. I have many friends who have done so. However, it is usually the young and those who are retiring.
When you have a family; a community; friends; a house; a job; and all the rest, it is not so easy to simply pick up and leave.... For instance - I love my house; my community; my friends; and my children and grandchildren who are spread across the US.
However, if we could figure out a way that our children and ourselves could support ourselves in Israel - we would probably all move there. But, my wife tells me that unless our children and grandchildren are going - we have to stay...

 

You are correct, I would have to address what you wrote.
But, I must decline. You win.
You see I simply do not accept your premises and, the discussion is built off of what I consider your erroneous opinions.
I do find the opinions of the UN and the EU Antisemitic. It appears to me to be self evident.
I do believe that your take on Zionists creating Arab hatred is wrong. It is illogical to me.
And, I didn't begin this thread to talk about whether the State of Israel is a good or bad thing.
I consider my answers to questions regarding Judaism's relationship to Islam and Christianity to be accurate and factual. The part that that State of Israel plays in that particular scenario is minor and irrelevant.
Israel is NOT the cause of Arab hatred. Arab hatred is Antisemitism.
As I find it so peculiar that any rational person does not see this, I cannot really debate the point.