Ask a Jew! What the Heck, why not....?

As a Christian I believe Jesus is the new Covenant, in place of the Covenant God established with the Jewish people .

My question is---how true is that original covenant to you---and how relevant is it to you today.

 

Ok. it is NOT the case that places at Eton were limited for Jews. As many Jews as could pay could get places and the scholarship boys have contained Jews since the 18th century. The biggest limit forJews at Eton has been the fact that there weren't many of them in the UK Also Disraeli wasn;t PM until the 1860s however this doesn't detract from the fact that Jews were certainly not 'doubly inferior'.

I feel the use of Terrorism here is really not helpfull. This is not one of those unpleasant Isreal /Palestine threads where the same boring people shout the same boring things at each other ad-finitum. I am NOT a 'pro' Israeli but I original Zionism looked for a mixed state where all faith could live together and it was after Muslim attacks on land that jews hhad legally bought that Protective militias were formed.

Jews did not 'originally come from the west' They have come from a large number of places to Israel from including all over the Arab world.

You seem to also have conveniently forgotten that the Muslim Khalifate colonised large areas of Europe and oppressed its Christian inhabitants up to World war 1 and committed a Genocide against Christians in 1915/16

 

I thought you only ate the body, only the priest drinks the blood.
And in Lutheranism, Missouri Synod, the bread and wine, represent the body and blood of Jesus. Obviously it's not literally.

 

What requirements are missing?
And I like the idea that most will go to heaven or whatever the next life will be.
Unlike the christians who think it will only be christians and then most of those will be in eternal torment with the rest of most of humanity. Doesn't make sense as they/we call God all loving and all.

 

I don't think it right the UN set up an israeli nation. What for?

 

That question has sod all to do with this site. Please take it to one of the ranting threads elsewhere.

 

You do realize that the calendar Daniel provides points to the time Jesus walked the earth, right?

What other prophesy was changed in the Bible to accomodate the sinfulness of man? I mean, did God see into the future, only to not see the sinfulness of the Jews?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

Well, as you said, that Original Covenant is G-d's Covenant with the Jewish People. And, G-d said that this Covenant was eternal.
I trust that G-d keeps His Covenant.

I might respectfully suggest you investigate the idea of the "Fulfillment Theology" as envisioned by early European colonists to America as opposed to the older idea of "Replacement Theology" that you seem to be holding by...

Not sure I answered your question...
G-d's Covenant with the Jewish People is extremely relevant to me, today. It is all about what we do...
Judaism is not so much a religion as a way of life. Our thoughts can turn to G-d every moment of the day from the blessing we recite when we wake up to the blessing we recite after going to the bathroom to the blessings we recite during morning prayers to the blessings we recite learning Torah to the blessings we recite when eating kosher food to the mezuzah on the doorpost we kiss as we enter and leave a place to the thoughts and pratices we have in business; with our family; with our social lives; on the computer; while working; while driving; while doing anything; to the afternoon and evening prayers we recite to the interaction with family and friends to the blessings we recite before we sleep...
It is the hope that all of this is done according to G-d's Covenant with His People.

 

I knew it was the wrong phrase and kept playing around with it until frustration said the heck with it.

My question regarding the covenant is the rather brutal treatment of gays and adulterers. As a Christian I get the "you don't follow the Bible you hypocrite" as non-believers quote dueteronomy/leviticus. But--for me its all commonsense logic as to why the covenant with the Hebrews does not pertain to my relationship with God today.

But, I'm a little resentful because you guys (you hebrews and Jews) don't seem to get this question--But it really is a question FOR you. Is the covenant as written still important or do you adjust to fit social norms of the day?

 

It's a long story but... in one sense - Jews do, indeed, run the world.
But, not in the manner that the crazy people think.
It is the Jewish relationship with G-d that determines much of what goes on in this world.
Back in the early 1900's, one of our Great Sages was told by one of his students of an earthquake in China that killed 100,000 Chinese. The Sage lamented that the sins of the Jews were affecting even far off China.
We learn that the sins that destroyed the First Temple were murder; immorality and idol worship. Yet the Temple was then rebuilt after only 70 years. The Jews repented of these heinous sins. (Which is, by the way, the story behind the story of Purim, which is what this thread began with...)
We learn that the 2nd Temple was destroyed because of the sin of Baseless Hatred (of Jew against Jew).
And, after 2,000 years, the Temple has not yet been rebuilt.
Jews are called by G-d to Love each other. And, they are called by G-d to be a nation of priests; a light unto the world. In order to do what G-d asks of us... we have to do what G-d asks of us. His Commandments and Laws. If we do not; if we rebel; if we don't care; if we simply ignore G-d, then we have not repented. And, Moshiach will not come.
Unless G-d Wills it because He must in order to save His Jewish People.
We learn that the "Times of Moshiach" are an extremely painful time for the Jewish People. So... there is certainly speculation that we are in the Times of Moshiach...

 

It's a mind-controlling cult. They've got you conditioned to think and act certain ways.

 

The same reason the world set up Syria; Transjordan; Lebanon; and Iraq. They had to do something with these leftover former possessions of the Ottoman Empire.

However, I suspect that what you mean is that you don't believe that the United Nations should have taken charge of the British Mandate for Palestine when the British said they were abandoning it because the Arabs and Jews were too damn much trouble.
And, I suspect that you mean that you think that the UN should not have voted to partition that remaining small bit of the British Mandate into a Jewish enclave and into an Arab enclave.
And, I suspect that you mean that you think that the UN should not have voted to recognize Israel as a State when the UN portion of the UN partition plan declared itself a sovereign nation.
And, I suspect that you also mean that you think that the UN should have forced those Arab nations that invaded and conquered the Arab portions of the UN Partition Plan to NOT take them over, but rather should have let them declare their own independent State(s).
Is that right?

 

No...its fine. Relax man. Now when the Jews start putting you in jail for not "acting a certain way" then perhaps you should worry. But Jews do leave the religion just like Christian families can have children who turn atheist. The true God is all about free-will.

 

I expect you're blind to it because you're religious yourself. Being raised to mutter prayers and constantly think of an imaginary being is brainwashing and mind-control. As for punishing those who try to leave, neither of us can hope to know how it's been for every Jew, but they had their history of severely punishing things like apostasy and blasphemy, same as Christianity and Islam. That always happens when religion and law are blended, as we know they were in Old Testament times.

But again, that's not my main point. The point is this conditioning children into accepting the idea of Mr. Deity, of not daring to question it and of devoting so much of their thinking and activity to it through rituals the way Moishe was describing. That is wrong, in my view. Indoctrination always is.

 

Okay. I understand.
I have tried to explain this a little and, I'm not sure I successfully can do so but, I will try again.
Judaism is governed by Jewish Law which comes from G-d's Torah and therefore, G-d's Covenant with the Jewish People.
However, Jewish Law is quite complex and quite specific.
Under Jewish Law, the death penalty was very difficult to enact. This would require a really long and in depth explanation as to why but I will try and give you the gist of it as pertaining to your specific query vis a vis adultery. (And I'm not going to even touch some of the more difficult ideas such as "Sotah.")
Let's go simple.
Someone is suspected of committing adultery, which is a capital crime worthy of the death penalty.
First of all - was the Suspect warned by 2 witnesses BEFORE the crime was committed that adultery was a death penalty crime? Did the Suspect fully understand the warning? If not - fuggedabouit.
2nd - Were there 2 witnesses to the actual crime itself? Are these reliable witnesses?
3rd - Is the injured party (the spouse) free from this sin? Is the spouse willing to take an oath to that effect?
4th - Is there a legitimate Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem to judge this crime? Is there a legitimate House of G-d extant?
And 5th, 6th, 7th, and too many other factors of which I haven't a clue....
Basically - people cannot be judged by other people without all of these various factors in place.
Even then, they might get off because of some point that even I wouldn't understand.

Yes. Adultery is a sin and a person shouldn't do it. He or She will definitely be judged by G-d.
And, yes. Homosexuality is a sin and a person should not do it. G-d will judge them.
However - gossip; bribery; speaking evil of others; bad business dealings; NOT being charitable, particularly to widows and orphans; not honoring your parents; being cruel and tormenting others (whoever they are - including homosexuals and adulterers); and a whole host of other bad activities are also all sins and - G-d will definitely judge those who act that way.
I believe that it was some Jew who said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He was apparently taught this by his rabbis...
Then again...(on the Gripping Hand...) We are also enjoined to speak out and condemn those that would make sin and immorality into accepted practices.
According to Judaism, there are seven Noachide Laws that all mankind is commanded to keep. One of those Laws prohibits sexual immorality (as defined in the Torah).

To be even simpler and more modern - G-d judges those who sin in private differently than those who advocate sinning in public and who agitate for that which G-d has prohibited and against that which G-d has declared Holy.
According to the Torah - G-d judges those kind of people rather harshly.

 

Normally I would agree with you. But it really depends on what is being taught, and the results of the teaching. Indoctrination to kill, steal, and plunder - yes, this is bad. If it is to do good to your fellow man, exercise self control, and other such niceties, I am hard pressed to talk smack on it regardless what it is called.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits..."

 

You are funny.
But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure that you just missed the post where I replied to you:
You didn't by any chance go to a Liberal Arts college and go onto to Graduate School, did you?
And, I don't suppose you studied the great thinkers such as Lenin or Marx, did you?
At any rate, in the very strictest scientific sense, your "worldview" is also molded how you were manipulated and the way you received your "information."

And, I'm pretty sure that you would be able to answer this, not being an "indoctrinated" person, if you had read it:
How would you know that your above opinion is accurate?
Have you studied any religion at all? If so what? What did you learn?
If not, then what rational basis do you have for your errant beliefs regarding religion?
How could you possibly know? What "investigation and inquiry" have you done into any "body of knowledge" regarding religion?
What "skepticism and critical thinking" have you applied to religion?
Yes?

 

It's still wrong to control the minds of individuals like that, no matter whether the "fruits" are arguably good or bad by some standard. I advocate critical & free thinking over any form of indoctrination. It is, after all, an issue of free will

 

I think you are probably right. I am not well versed in the ME history except to say I think the UN f'd up big time when setting the boundaries it did. As one said earlier, sect against sect. Even within the muslim sects.

 

If jewish folks think that most will be with God except for very rare circumstances, then why the punishment for things that God would have created? Like same sex liking same sex, or someone with a very strong testosterone. Does not God create us all? And as you say, G-d will judge, so why the harsh punishment from the church/synagogue?

 

Oh, I saw that stuff earlier. It seems you have a stereotypical idea about who I am and how I came to say the things I say here, that I was indoctrinated myself by a liberal arts college. *L* No. I've been to college, but it did very little to challenge my faith back when I had it. In fact, one of the colleges I attended was a Lutheran one, and I was a Lutheran myself in those days. So I know something at least about how religion warps the mind. Why should we ever think of gods, angels, demons or demigods (like Jesus) as something real, something normal? They are absurd ideas. They have clear origins from times long before science and the wealth of knowledge it has helped us to accumulate.

I think it's funny that you call my beliefs about religion "errant," by the way. They most certainly are not. The popular religions of today are the cults of yesterday, and so they retain many of the same old tricks but refined to greater perfection. That is to say, religion evolves like so much else in this universe to survive despite challenges from all sides. It finds a niche and adapts to it. It challenges other religions for territory and dominance. Religions even have offspring and branching family trees, just like animal species as well as human ethnicities, languages, cultural practices and technologies. Judaism is one of the oldest surviving religions, yet it too has adapted over time to remain as relevant as it can.

Still,



... still it is utterly ridiculous, as is:

 

I am neither a prophet nor the son of a prophet. Nor do I play one on television.
I don't know that G-d will "punish" anyone for anything. I wrote G-d will "Judge." And how He Judges is up to Him, the One True Judge.
And - the synagogue, the Jewish place of communal worship, ought not to be judging anyone.
We have had gay people stop by our "ultra" Orthodox synagogue from time to time. They were treated politely like any other Jew.

 

Good. So, don't believe in Jesus; demigods; gods; angels; and demons.
I don't believe that I suggested that you do.
I was interested in whether you studied the science of Materialism such as Lenin or Marx but, you decline to say. Not a problem.
You believe in "Science." Also good. Personally, I like science a lot. If it were not for good old Quantum physics, we'd still be living back in the Stone Age with Dumbphones and tiny little hard drives... Chemistry, which is really the granddaddy of all science, is also kind of cool. Love them alloys... Science is good.
Phew... We agree. How nice.

Meanwhile, back on the farm...

Uhhh.... liked your first answer but... I really am curious - perhaps? Maybe? Please? Could you tell me:
How would you know that your above opinion is accurate?
Have you studied any religion at all? If so what? What did you learn?
If not, then what rational basis do you have for your errant beliefs regarding religion?
How could you possibly know? What "investigation and inquiry" have you done into any "body of knowledge" regarding religion?
What "skepticism and critical thinking" have you applied to religion?

You see, it's like this - I have studied a bit of science and a bit of religion and a bit of literature and a bit of this and that and, I pretty much find it all useful.
Now, I started this thread on whimsy figuring... why not?
However, I am pretty darn sure - from my studies and experience - that G-d is very real and the Torah is very True.
But, that's mainly because I happen to have delved into a lot of different things in my brief span on this planet. I am educated in the subjects that interest me.
Based on your responses thus far, I can only surmise that you are not much educated in religion and, that you don't much care to be... This is fine.
But, your disdain appears to come from some other source than any kind of investigation.
Perhaps the Lutherans did things that made you mad? I don't know.
Gravity does things to me that makes me unhappy yet, I do not disdain Gravity.

I really do think one ought to investigate a bit before they despise and denigrate... No?

 

My disdain comes from the utter absurdity and lack of evidence for religious claims. You have a funny way of reasoning and arguing. Lots of deflection, like your bit about anger. I just have no tolerance lies, and especially not for deceiving children who don't know any better in an effort to indoctrinate them into a belief system.

So, the questions you insist on.. No, I haven't studied Lenin or Marx. I have some literature from Marx and Engels around, but I haven't gotten into it yet. It's not a high priority for me, to tell you the truth.

I have studied religion - you'll recall that I mentioned attending a Lutheran college, after all. I had to study it there, and I have studied it before and after as well. Not terribly deeply, but I know my way around Christian theology at least. More recently, though, I've been far more concerned with Christianity's origins. These fables don't just spring up from nowhere, usually, though to Christians they're all genuinely the product of various miracles having been witnessed and recorded. In believing this, Christians instantly become very biased against a less religious view of their religion's origins, which I feel lie in a combination of elements that include elements of Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Persian astrology and myth. I feel this is basically true of all of the texts contained in the Christian bible, though of course the "Old Testament" and "New Testament" texts are of differing ages of origins compared to one another.

And, oh N-gger... What "skepticism and critical thinking" have you applied to religion? Are you kidding me??

 

Is the christian genesis story the same as the torah creation story?
Is the earth 6000 yrs old?
Is humanity 6000 yrs old?