Ask your difficult questions of an Atheist.

And yet here I am, an atheist who has respect for Christianity and Christians. He's mostly correct, the only atheists you see on TV are what have been termed anti-theists, they don't just disbelieve in God, they actively proselytize atheism, and typically mock and denigrate religion and religious believers. It's kind of ironic given the historic treatment of atheists... you'd think they'd be more circumspect. Atheism is still punishable by death in Saudi Arabia.

 

The effects of prayer on hospitalized patients have been studied, with mixed results. If you know about the prayers on your behalf, prayer helps. If you don't know about them, they don't help.

The problem with testing for the supernatural is that it brings it down to the natural. If it could be tested, it wouldn't have a mind behind it. If there's a mind behind it, it cannot be tested because a mind can vary from test to test. Since it has never been suggested that God answers all prayers equally, testing for the efficacy of prayer has a built in failure factor. As for miracles, there have been plenty of them, but the atheists dismiss them all with a wave of the hand. It's really a form of intellectual dishonesty to demand miracles while dismissing all the miracles that have been claimed to have occurred previously as not true. Most atheists could witness a miracle and still ascribe it to a previously unknown natural phenomenon, without so much as questioning their faith in atheism.

 

Every Sunday my TV has multiple Christian programs forwarding the Christian position, I even have a channel completely devoted to doing so. I do not complain about it and instead simply use my prerogative to watch something else. If I decided to feel offended by this I could say that by preaching their message they disrespect my Atheism...I do not do so because I do not suffer from a persecution complex and respect their right to preach. Perhaps we should go ahead and become the religion some Christians say we are so we gain the same protections and rights they do.

That just seems like a lot of work to turn into what I try to avoid.

 

I'm a former believer and mourned the loss of my faith. No more could I look forward to an eternity of happiness after death, nor could I console myself with the thought that evil people would forever burn in the pits of hell for their wrongdoing in life. Even as an atheist, I'm more comfortable with Christians than atheists, possibly because my political views are still very conservative, possibly because I still see Christianity as good for society.

 

That's the most idiotic statement I've ever seen you make, and you've made some real whoppers on here. I believed in Jesus for 29 years. Get bent.

 

Christians on TV (generally) don't mock and disrespect atheism, they pity it and try to turn you from it to save your soul from eternal damnation. That's a very different treatment of the "other" than the anti-theists like Bill Maher, who made a two hour movie mocking religious people and religious views.

 

Is there some reason you rail against Atheism and defend Christianity while claiming to be Atheist?

I sense a level of disingenuous activity here...young Padawan.

 

Adam was a rough draft !

 

I probably can show you dozens of movies where it’s implied if you don’t believe in God you’ll burn in hell.

 

I guess we have to re-define evil. I find slavery and submission of women as evil but the prophets didn’t.

 

Probably the 29 years I spent as a believer. I'm an atheist against my wishes, as it were. I find myself a minority among minorities, with only 2% of the population being atheist and only 10% of atheists being conservative, so I'm among the .2% here.

 

Neat..send my pity party invite at least a week in advance next time.

 

Lets see.... the only atheists you see on tv are anti theists
And which theists do you see on tv? Aren’t they likewise full throated advocates for their cause. Perhaps it is the inherent nature of our media that it seeks out such people and presents them as representative?

As far as respect is concerned, i think it is extraordinarily more likely to encounter an atheist with respect for religion, as compared to encountering a religionist with respect for atheism. After all, it is religionists who claim they are the exclusive font of morality.... and enthuse with barely veiled contempt about how atheists are necessarily corrupt and immoral.

 

This thread is doing EXACTLY as intended. I created a place for questions to be asked and every one of them has been answered with respect and honesty, in direct contract to the "Ask a Christian" version. Very telling indeed....this will now be seen by some as an attack on Christianity instead of an honest evaluation of a few distinct "Christians"

 

Do you find that disrespectful of atheists? Because that's what Jesus said would happen.

Mat 10:32 ¶ Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luk 16:24 ¶ And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

Will do. Should I put you down for beer or Coke?

I could have added that the 10% of atheists who are conservative are almost exclusively libertarians and not social conservatives like me.

I haven't met any of these religionists you're referring to. But I agree with them, religion is the exclusive font of morality. Without God, morality degenerates into ethics, trying to decide what's right and wrong with no moral compass whatsoever. It becomes nearly impossible for an atheist to condemn anything because in order to condemn something, you have to have an objective basis from which to practice moral judgement. But without God, without religion, there is no objective basis for morality, morality becomes the will o' the wisp of public opinion, vox populi, it's the current year. Atheists try to build morality on shifting sand.

 

Go back to religion.

Your ideas of whether or not humans can decide what should be allowed and what should not....without the aid of a god...is absurd.

Best guess that can be made is that ALL the "moral" decisions that have been made by the various gods of the various religions...

...are moral decisions made by the people who invented them.



You have not transitioned.

 

Prominent atheists and atheist groups have said that discrimination against atheists is illustrated by a statement reportedly made by George H. W. Bush during a public press conference just after announcing his candidacy for the presidency in 1987.[54][94][95][96] When asked by journalist Robert Sherman about the equal citizenship and patriotism of American atheists, Sherman reported that Bush answered, "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God."[54][96][97] Sherman did not tape the exchange and no other newspaper ran a story on it at the time.[

Wow.... presumably you think that somehow there was no morality in any nation other than israel?
And that we will find morality in the Torah?
Morality such as not eating pork or shellfish?
Or perhaps you are referring to the ten commandments?
In which god presumably told the jews not to kill
Except that he also presumably told the jews to invade other cities... killing everyone, except for virginal young girls who could be kept alive for..... ummmm whatever came up

Old time religion (including judaism ) had virtually nothing to do with either morality or ethics
The fact is that Even jesus did not speak much about morality.... when did he ever?

You have certain preconceptions about ethics vs morality. And of course you are entitled to your opinion. But this is ONLY an opinion. Here is what the Britannica says on the topic

Generally, the terms ethics and moralityare used interchangeably, although a few different communities (academic, legal, or religious, for example) will occasionally make a distinction. In fact, Britannica’s article on ethics considers the terms to be the same as moral philosophy. While understanding that most ethicists (that is, philosophers who study ethics) consider the terms interchangeable, let’s go ahead and dive into these distinctions.

Both morality and ethics loosely have to do with distinguishing the difference between “good and bad” or “right and wrong.” Many people think of morality as something that’s personal and normative, whereas ethics is the standards of “good and bad” distinguished by a certain community or social setting. For example, your local community may think adultery is immoral, and you personally may agree with that. However, the distinction can be useful if your local community has no strong feelings about adultery, but you consider adultery immoral on a personal level. By these definitions of the terms, your morality would contradict the ethicsof your community. In popular discourse, however, we’ll often use the terms moraland immoral when talking about issues like adultery regardless of whether it’s being discussed in a personal or in a community-based situation. As you can see, the distinction can get a bit tricky.
​

In the illustrative moral case of adultery, it seems to me that you cannot say whether a person might be an adulterer based on his religion. Trump is asserted to be a champion of religion and yet is renown for divorce and his sexual exploits. Obama was criticized as a fake Christian and yet seemed faithful to his wife. And it is not like religious leaders are icons of sexual morality, is it?

​

Lol, are you sure you are not a religionist? Perhaps you are a self hating atheist? I mean, morality is what ever you think it is... is plural marriage moral? Is divorce moral? What age is it moral to marry? Is stoning to death moral? Is killing everyone in a city and taking their land moral? Is witch burning moral? Was the conquest of the americas moral? Were the crusades moral? Was slavery moral? Is lynching moral? Is beating up gays moral? Christ suggests turning the other cheek... is that moral, or is Trumps approach more moral?

 

I'm sorry, I messed up the response form. The last quote from you in that post is actually my response:

Yeah, I wouldn't expect there to be specific laws per se (or, well, I would expect there to be, but I imagine most of that is already in the law book and is taught by non-religious children). I'm not sure what kind of answer I expect, concepts, rules, endeavours, frames of mind, processes etc.

 

The pitch stick. A pitch stick has a sticky sap that sticks to everything. A monkey, for example, comes along and picks it up with his left hand but it sticks. He uses his right hand to free himself, then both hands are stuck. He uses his left foot and right foot, then presses his head against the stick to free himself and now he is completely bound…then the hunter comes and kills the monkey.

“Morality” comes from the latin word “moralis” which means “custom,” like the vox populi rule that you should use the outer fork first when eating a salad. So it means exactly the opposite of the way you and others are using it.

Is ethics based on anything that is objective?

Is Zeus an object?

Were there any ethics before Christian Theology?

What ethical system did Christ reject?

 

In order for me to have listed something like that, Christians would need to agree what they are to begin with...so I could not do so.

 

So essentially prayer has only been shown to work at best as a placebo effect.

Not true. We have social and psychologies that study the actions of humans with their minds all the time.

But if we were to get a large enough sample, then we will eventually catch some prayer answering, and the patients who got prayed for will have on average somewhat better results because of the few who were answered.

Atheists dismiss miracles like you dismiss UFOs, bigfoot, the lockness monster, ghosts, psychics, and reincarnation experiences. These are extraordinary claims and require extraordinary evidence. I'd have to ask whether its more likely I really saw something supernatural or that this is a trick or I don't completely understand the medical situation. If there are plenty of miracles, then why isn't there an objective report of one yet? Like if a bone healed miraculously, then medical records should be sufficient.

 

Western Europe and Eastern Asia are the most secular on the planet and the majority of the populations there are almost completely secular. Yet these nations are the most peaceful on the planet and have the lowest crime on the planet. In addition, these are some of the wealthiest, technologically advanced, scientifically advanced, and educated nations on the planet as well.

 

I don't think I need anything from religion as a unified group, I'm looking for any insights, even if there are third parties who would not agree.

 

Hmmm...there are many, many insights to be gained from the metaphors of the Bible(s)…..the list would be extensive. There were insights to be found in "The Lord of the Rings" as well, or "The Dancing Wu Li Masters (one of my favorites). Yet these insights are merely aspects of who we become and do not require a deity.