Associated Press claims ObamaCare premiums will rise by double digits next year

Well . . . they haven't for decades . . . so . . . no.

 

Here you go again going off half cocked without getting your facts straight. But then you wouldn't be Right WingNuts if you didn't.

1. The entirety of this "increase" is based on the Kaiser Family report which after reading this thread I'm sure none of you read. But here's the link in-case you want to educate yourselves.
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-b...-marketplaces/

2. The "double digit rate increases" are ONLY for the EXCHANGES. The increases for all other plans (employer based and individual plans purchased on the open market) ARE NOT REFLECTED IN THE STUDY !!!!!!

3. The driving factor in the increased rates is insurer participation. Less insurers = less competition. If you look at the chart in the link you will see that the states with the largest increase in premiums are ones with little to no competition. Case in point is Alabama and Arizona: Alabama had a 71% increase but they only have 1 insurer !!!! Arizona had a 145% increase because 6 of the 8 insurers dropped out of the exchanges !!!! No competition = Monopoly.

Also, if you read the supplemental from KFF you would also see that the driving factor in the reason most companies are leaving the Exchanges is that the government ended their re-insurance program. So now that the government isn't guaranteeing profit margins, the insurance companies don't actually want to compete. Surprise surprise......That was the main reason that UnitedHealth and Aetna left, but they want to think it's because they lost money. When in reality it was that they didn't make enough money.

You would also see that in many states not only was insurer participation down, but there was also a lower participation rate among the insured. Smaller pools = increased costs. And lower participation rates among those seeking insurance lowers the cost to taxpayers. But I'm sure none of you will congratulate Obama now that it is costing less.....

If you have read anything that comes from the KFF you would also know that costs for healthcare are still rising. Hospitals were only getting paid by 1 out of every 7 patients before Obamacare, and they used that as justification for costs. NOW they are getting paid on average by 6 out of every 7 patients, and costs are still rising. So either their gauging, or they being very dishonest about what their charging for. But remember, it was the right who fought against any cost controls on the healthcare providers, so you don't get to (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) now that they are taking advantage of you.

 

But none of this matters. Maybe you won't have medical care, can't feed your family, get evicted, lose your job and then all destroyed by nuclear war with Russia - but that isn't what is important to you.

The only thing that will affect your life is whether or not Donald Trump tried to kiss a woman and she didn't want him to 10, 20 years ago. That is all that to you matters in your life and future.

 

The public has no clue on the primary payer of healthcare services for the population. The reason why it premiums are so high is largely due to the self-insured employers or other self-insured entities that do not pay premiums and subtracted over 88 million of the healthiest pool of the population from private carriers that can only report full premiums paid to NAIC in revenue reports. The government who did not want to lose political donation funding contracted over 52 million people that are under government insurance to private carriers.
This is why health spending is triple the cost for the government compared to previous years. The higher premium cost for subsidy members is to increase the revenue for insurers to increase profit margins for Wall street investors. The self-insured employers are paying for health claims out of the total premium shares collected from their employees. The higher deductibles allows them to pay very little from their own bank account for health claims for their employees. To add further insult to the majority of employees that are not in management is those premiums shares is largely spent for the higher income brackets medical expenses.
The entire healthcare industry that place Wall street, self-insured entities and increase funding to government as their primary goal first in accomplishing doesn't leave much money left to pay for all the people underneath them. That is why most people in the lower income brackets all have a high deductible in place so they are paying for their healthcare cost year to year. If any of them do obtain a higher claim expense, then they will most likely not keep their job very long since the employer will find any excuse to get rid of them that doesn't point to the real reason of why they lost their job.
The insurers should have never been allowed to deny people of pre-existing conditions because it dissolves the original mission statement that if everyone paid in a large pool then if they ever did obtain a serious condition it would be covered. No one in their right mind feels that paying 5,000 a year for premiums during their younger years when they didn't need services to be denied later when they did need them would support the insurance industry.
We as the public are mislead in the actual truth of the money trail that is not going for healthcare services. The media wants you to believe it is going to the providers of care but how can this be true if they are receiving less reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid, a lower bulk check from insurers since cost has been shifted to the consumers?
The sticker price of healthcare charges are reduced to 25% reimbursement from payers. If you do not believe me, then look at your own EOB for your healthcare services and see it for yourself.

 

ACA in a Nutshell:

The Affordable Care Act was passed into law in 2010. Healthy young people never bought into the ponzi scheme (what blithering idiot didn't see that one coming). So you have a bunch of sick and sickers gleefully signing up for it and the insurance companies are losing their shirts. This is what happens when you let Democrats run the government because not one Republican member of congress voted for it.

 

I think the ones with brains...are going to elect someone as close in character and political philosophy as Barack Obama as possible.

I think that "public" you spoke of is going to want Obamacare improved, not removed...and I think that "public" you spoke of is going to tell you that on November 8th.

I doubt you guys will listen...but "not listening" is what has gotten the clown of the American right into the fix they find themselves in right now.

So...we'll see.

Just two weeks...and we will see what that "public" of which you spoke has to say.

I'm looking forward to it.

I guess you are too.

Right?

 

Obamacare is a cluster. Just get rid of it and replace it with ... nothing. Then loosen restrictions on the private insurance market and that will provide catastrophic coverage for the poor.

 

whats shocking are all the articles I'm reading this afternoon, that are telling people not to worry, and its no big deal, or that republicans are "celebrating" this... its just disgusting that these journalists are saying republicans are "celebrating" this increase, they are jumping up and down screaming and waving their hands saying danger danger danger everything we warned you about is happening, we have to do something now before the other horrific things happen because it will get even worse... instead the journalists use this as an attempt to deflect and demean republicans as if somehow they are cheering and applauding the downfall and harm to americans, this is just getting annoying to see journalists continue this diatribe and constant attack in an attempt to vilify republicans as other than "they were right"...

I mean I just got done reading one article, that said don't worry abut the 22% increase because the last 2 years were pretty good so its okay to pay more... insane...

 

LOL, in other words you are saying obama and company lied, you just cannot admit it even when its staring you in the face.

 

The only thing Obama Care will rise to is the top of the trash heap as soon as Trump takes office.

 

Honest question, are you worried about the price of insurance, or the price of healthcare ?

 

You couldn't be more wrong. A clinton victory will in no way signify a mandate for this atrocious piece of legislation. The ONLY information one could take from a clinton win is that donald trump is an arrogant, stupid, and unfit candidate. Period. I hope the freaking morons repubs who enabled this perfect sh!t storm scenario are happy. Idiots.

 

I'm not, I do however pay the insurance for hundreds of my employees, so I likely have a vastly different view on this than most people... but for those stuck in the government marketplace, I can't help but wonder, how can those folks afford to not be upset, they were told this wouldn't keep happening, yet here we are again...

are you attempting to diminish the effects on others because I can afford insurance? are you attempting to deflect and minimize the impact this has on society?

shouldn't YOU be concerned for the well being and affordability of something we were promised would be affordable and not do everything its doing now?

seriously, answer those honestly, since you want me to answer honestly... but I think you completely missed my point, about how republicans are being vilified and demonized at every turn of this, as if they are cheering for the rate increases, rather than taking it for what it is, them screaming and shouting this is everything we warned you about and we need to do something now because its only going to get worse... yet every article I read tonight, was not about the rate increase, it was about deflecting and blaming republicans as if they are cheerleaders for higher prices and are welcoming these rate increase like a warm set of tata's on a cold day... are you seriously missing the entire point of my message, about the inherent and gross manipulation of the media to convince folks a 22% increase is nothing to worry about?!?!?!

P.S. our insurance rates are going up 2% this year, just like last year, because the provider we use isn't in the marketplace... slightly above inflation, but I couldn't ask for better...

P.S.S. and the reason why I emphasize insurance vs healthcare, is because its mandated to buy insurance, or face a penalty, which now costs almost as much as premiums for people, so they have little choice now but to buy if they didn't before... and many didn't need insurance, or need as much as is provider in these plans... so while we could argue insurance vs healthcare, the point today is people HAVE to buy insurance, without necessarily getting healthcare out of it... thats an issue...

 

We've ALWAYS had coverage for the poor. I know because I grew up that way. We NEVER went without medical. It's a ridiculous lie that the poor were ever dying in the street.

 

Obama lied. The DNC tactic in this election is to lie incessantly.

- - - Updated - - -

The purpose of Obama care was to shift the costs of indigent health care from the wealth to the working class and to have a justification to deny medical care to the poor for lack of having the co-pay.

 

So what will be done about it?
I never liked this republican plan. All it did was give big insurance companies more people to insure, but no more people to pay for it.
How this plan working in Ma?

 

I am not wrong at all.

I acknowledge that I am sharing an opinion. My opinion is that "the public" Zorro spoke of appreciate that something has to be done to bring America up to the healthcare standards of the rest of the industrialized world (and some of the third world). My opinion is that most of them see Obamacare as the beginning of that journey...and that they want it built upon...not dismissed like the rabid right insists on doing.

We'll see.

I think a great deal more can be taken from it...but it sounds as though trying to get through to you on that would not be successful.

Okay.

Fine with me.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...=W_4PWPHkC4HsmQHiuKjIDg#imgrc=Bq22fUqP9zEMbM:

Looks like this is just a continuation of what has been going on for more than a decade.

 

You would be wrong. Trump was the only RNC candidate that could have lost to a corrupt liar like that filth, clinton. AFAIC thats a fact.

 

Really good post!

Apparently you own a company. I would like to hear your thoughts on how the U.S. should manage health care. I have thought that it should be tied to employment, with a safety net for the unemployed and vulnerable.

What health care model for the U.S. would you support?

 

well I use health insurance to attract and retain employees, like most stereotypes suggest, I shoulder about $10,000 per employee while they pay roughly $2000 a year in premiums... most folks always forget how much the employers are shouldering... so what would I suggest for those whose employers do not offer insurance you ask?

I would like to see the government setup "clinics" in cities of certain sizes... basically each clinic would have a certain mile radius it serves, anyone who falls within that radius without insurance, can go to the "free" clinic which is essentially taxpayer funded, think of it like the VA system more or less, its not going to be great, but thats your option for government care... in the rural areas where this isn't practical due to population density, I see expanding medicaid for those folks, because I just don't see it worth the money to have a clinic in every town, its only going to be affordable in large population densities...

and then I expect once folks get a taste of the type of care provided by the government, employer provided healthcare will be quite the goal for many people who do not have healthcare and must rely on this government care... the reason why I think we need actual clinics is because the areas of poverty, actually have very few doctors officers, because all those doctors left once nobody paid their bills, so they couldn't afford to stay, same reason hospitals left poor areas, nobody pays the bills, so I think rather than fund and subsidize private care, I think people should get put on the public system, which will never be that great... but its the cheapest solution to provide something...

now if we're keeping the current tax system, I genuinely believe anyone who has health expenses, should be able to deduct them on their taxes... not get a credit, but get a deduction against their income, I think that will help the middle class some, it won't affect the poor since they are not really paying federal income taxes so its a moot point to them, but the middle class certain could get some advantage with this assuming they have enough deductions to not take the standard deduction... but this will also require I raise taxes somewhere to offset this, because once you add all the estimations up, thats going to be a fair chunk of change, should be billions...

I think this will give us the cheapest method to provide healthcare versus insurance... and once we look at the cost of operating those likely substandard clinics, it will be a far greater savings than simply paying for insurance which doesn't equate healthcare, and we'll be passing a far lower cost on to all the other people... but make no mistake, this means there will be some form of tax on all ameicans who pay federal income taxes, or per employee if folks decide to charge employers, but I also believe when I've run the numbers, its significantly less than what the middle class is being bent over the table for today... much less...

(however be aware, much like the VA, doctors and nurses at these government facilities will be one of two types, those who believe in service to the public and are willing to work for less, and then you will have the doctors and nurses kicked out of private practices for misconduct or substandard work, those will be your providers)

P.S. this also means, we can end spending on planned parenthood in major cities, since we will now have government clinics performing the work, so there are synergies like that where we're essentially already paying double, once to subsidized insurance, twice to subsidize care in cities... so we're already spending some of the money we can now shift, which will help moderate the cost of setting up a government run clinic in large cities with poor populations... but also keep in mind, this means private insurance rates will dive back down once all the "sick" folks are now not directly raising their insurance prices, and once government mandated reimbursement rates for certain things, don't also cause doctors to simply increase costs and pass that along to insurance... right now government mandated reimbursements for those medicaid patients, cause doctors to charge private insurance patients higher rates to essentially subsidize the poor on medicaid... so we would realize some savings on that end for the middle class to help offset whatever new tax we're going to have to pay for the clinics... (basically its more efficient use of the money and indirect costs to incomes versus everyone who attempts to use insurance)

 

Im not diminishing anything. Im pointing out the hypocrisy of those on the right who stood on high preaching that single payer was a bad idea and that it was "the end of capitalism", who are now somehow blaming Obamacare for rising healthcare costs via these increasing insurance rates.

I do think it bears noting that what I was pointing out in my post was the right is screaming that the sky is falling, when in actuality is not really any different than the last 20 years in terms of overall percentage increases in "all" insurance rates. The study they cite is only giving half the picture, and we need to truly understand why the rates are increasing, so that we can figure out the right way to fix the problem. I never supported Obamacare as a fix to our healthcare problems. I have always supporting it as a starting point, and nothing more. But we cant fix the problem if we blame Obamacare. Obamacare isn't increasing the rates, because Obamacare isn't increasing the cost of delivery. If we focus on the wrong problem, we will work to fix the wrong cause.

I support single payer, but it has to be mandatory. There will always be those who don't use it today, but everyone will use it at some point. Thats why its called insurance. Pay as you go doesn't work because it ends up costing those who have been paying in to the system. We tried that experiment for the last 60 years, and costs were out of control. Like any business, what Obamacare TRIED to do was create financial predictability for everyone, but what they forgot was that american capitalism means "we must pay more".

We have to control costs. And until we do that, were just blowing air. Single payer does just that. But we cant do anything to control costs because that would be anti capitalist for some reason. Thats the hypocrisy of the right on full display. You cant (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about the cost if you do everything in your power to stop any attempt to control that cost. Today the average american family pays almost $7000 in premiums, and another $2000-$6000 in deductibles for healthcare. Thats not sustainable in any economy.

I do care about those on the exchanges, I was not trying to trivialize those increases because of who they affect. I was pointing out that the "average" increase was heavily skewed, and that the report explained what and why. But that got lost in the "27% increase in Obamacare" headline. Blaming Obamacare for the rising costs of healthcare is like blaming the mall when you get a crappy sandwich in the food court

 

see you were so close to being my new buddy, but then you went and ruined it... I mean in my capitalist example, premiums and costs to me for my employees, only went up 2% which is slightly above inflation, because capitalism DOES work when its allowed to work the way its intended... problem is, obamacare is not capitalistic, its one giant subsidy which by design should and likely will eventually collapse upon itself... I realize you said you're not a fan of it, so I'm not trying to lob this at you in a way that I want or need you to defend it, I'm just merely addressing your capitalism point... clearly if I can offer my employees an almost inflation controlled increase, capitalism works tremendously well because I can shop out and buy for all of them at a significantly lower rate of cost increases, below obamacare by far...

the problem with people attempting to suggest we can afford to lets call it the "european model" if thats a fair summary to put words in your mouth? is we don't address the true cost of the american healthcare system, the employees of the healthcare system, are the primary cost when we look at a hospitals or clinics budget... we find employees make up the lions share of the costs, followed by equipment used in care, followed by facilities... the salaries of those employees is rising above inflation, well above it, in fact when I get into arguments with folks, I often cite how european doctors and nurses make 25-33% LESS than americans for the same jobs... thats why prices keep going up, every year we add more people to the system which lacks employees and they pay higher salaries to steal employees from one another, we simply don't have the number of trained and qualified staff to control those costs currently... so NO system changes will truly solve our costs until we address that FIRST...

only after we address those employee costs can we start to haggle and argue over the profits of insurance companies and stuff... but its not enough to make a dent in the true cause of the rising costs, employee wages... they are the driving force in american healthcare when you dump insane amounts of people into the system not designed to handle the current load... the fact we're arguing over insurance is even a moot point because in the grand scheme, the profits from those companies, wouldn't expand healthcare much at all, or do anything to keep the rising prices down... prices will continue to rise as clinics the folks with subsidized insurance, hire more staff at higher rates to handle the volume, and they pass those rising costs along to the insurance making it more expensive, which gets spread out among the remaining healthy people to pay higher rates... so when we look at the WHOLE picture, the real problem is still not insurance, but the fact we're dumping unhealthy people into clinics which are on a HIRING SPREE and passing those costs along... now sure it would help if the poor paid for it, but they're poor, we know they won't... a single payer system won't address these rising costs... I kinda feel like I'm repeating myself here, I'm watching the baseball game and its really taking too much of my attention...

P.S. the "average" increase is still 22% so don't let the 27% make you think its really like 5% if it wasn't for horrible evil republicans or something... 22% is significant...

P.S.S. out of curiosity, where did you get the figure for $7000 in premiums? that seems quite out of wack to me from what I've reviewed over the years... but you peaked my curiosity on that one... got something I can read over on that? we're talking premiums not deductibles... because the last information I read for at least my area, that would be double the average premiums paid by employees in my region... (well for family plans, singles are way cheaper)

 

These are very interesting ideas.

Let me run another thought by you and ask what you think of it.

I am in favor of progressive personal income taxes on individuals. But I am against income taxes on businesses. The reason for that is that I perceive a "business" to be simply a group of people working together to make a living. I do not understand why we acquiesce to taxing that activity. So my question to you is this ... How much easier would it be for your company to provide medical insurance to your employees if your company could deduct the cost of your employees' medical insurance from its income taxes?

 

It won't make any difference to docile Millennials, "basement dwellers and barristas", and other witless parasites. They'll just suck even harder on their Democrat welfare straws -- if only because after years of laying around on their inert asses on Mommy and Daddy's couch, they don't know how to do anything else!