At its rout, doesn't "pro-life" indicate they beleive women are "stupid" or "evil"?

They don't believe women can be convinced or "reasoned with" into not having an abortion. Which means they think women are "stupid", since their "logical or ethical or factual" argument against abortion won't work.

They believe the only way to stop them or even reduce them is by outlawing it. And they often allude to abortion being "just like murder" or "if it was illegal, we'd investigate and prosecute it just like we do murder". Which means they think women are "evil", like murderers.

So at its basic....don't "pro-lifers" have a strongly negative view of women?

 

To be fair, lots of women are stupid and can't be reasoned with. Lots of men are stupid and can't be reasoned with too. If it wasn't for stupid men and women, there would be a load fewer unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

I'm not convinced that a position against legal abortion automatically implies a negative view of women.

 

Well, you just said if it wasn't for stupid women there'd be fewer unwanted pregnancies. ...even though many intelligent women get pregnant and have abortions.


Yes, being against SAFE, AFFORDABLE, legal abortion IS a negative view of women. It says that women need to be controlled like animals, that they're ALL SO STUPID that only Anti-Choicers know what's best for them, that they need their decisions made for them...

Anti-Choicers have said that women don't know what "pregnant" means, they advocated FORCING women to look at their ultra-sounds..

They want women prosecuted for miscarriages.


And many, many, Anti-Choicers have stated in this forum that women are selfish , irresponsible, evil muderers, sluts, if they have an abortion.


Gee, no "negative" view of women there!

 

I quite deliberatly said stupid men and women - it takes two to tango. Evern intelligent people (man and women again) can act stupidly, especially when they start thinking below the waistline.

There are all sorts of reasons some people object to the idea of having any legal abortions and many more some people believe there should be some restrictions. Many of them are bad reasons but that doesn't mean they all are and it certainly doesn't mean they're all the same. There is no justification to assume their rationalle is that women are stupid and need to be controlled.

I never said there was no negative views of women, only that a position against abortion doesn't automatically imply such a view (certainly not intentionally).

 

The results, a negative affect on women, are the same....

 

Not really but you're still free to make up false arguments for people you disagree with.

 

Who are you addressing? What false arguments?

 

That pro-lifers are evil or stupid. As a pro-lifer I can tell you I certainly don't think that. But then again Gorn has rarely been interested in truth and instead prefers to troll so I'm not surprised by the accusation.

 

I called lots of women stupid. Including men was to avoid false accusations of attacking women when I'm just attacking people.

I'm not arguing against abortion, I questioning the nature of the debate.

Quite possibly, but there is a difference between arguing for a policy because they want to harm women and arguing for a policy which inadvertently harms women. If any of the former even exist, there'd be little point engaging them in debate. Assuming everyone opposed to abortion wants to harm women is hardly going to encourage the kind of reasonable debate that could convince the latter to change their views.

It makes it seem that you think they're stupid and can't be reasoned with.

 

Well, I won't call them evil , a word THEY use to describe women, but they are nasty as they seem quite eager to take away women's right to their own bodies. Doesn't matter what THEY call it, the results are the same.

 

""""Quite possibly, but there is a difference between arguing for a policy because they want to harm women and arguing for a policy which inadvertently harms women"""


Doesn't make any difference to the women they are harming....and maybe you should read more of this forum where women are routinely called baby murderers and how they should be prosecuted and jailed for having an abortion and how some of the dopes don't know the difference between a fetus and a baby.... and what sluts they are because they can't keep their legs together and on and on...

And then there's the proof positive, Anti-Choicers who say abortion due to rape or incest are acceptable....meaning that women who have consesual sex should be punished.

 

Personally I don't think pro-lifers are either evil or stupid .. misguided intentions would fit better. I fully understand what they are fighting for .. but in my opinion the ends do not justify the means.

 

This is an internet forum. Nothing gets harmed here other than egos.

On a wider scale though, only by understanding (and being honest about) others actual motives can you make arguments that could change their opinions. Treating all of the people who disagree with you as scum is only going to push them further in the wrong direction.

Why would I read that trash? I'm looking for rational debate. More to the point, why do you choose to read that trash, let alone respond to it?

Their counter-argument would be that you want the foetus to be punished. I'd say you're both talking rubbish.

 

I believe the best way to prevent abortion isn't by outlawing it but by educating them about it instead. I think the more people learn about it the more they'll understand that it's not as clear cut as they initially realized.

 

I believe that they just see things differently and have opposing opinions. Their's nothing evil or misguided about that in my opinion.

 

OK, we're all talking rubbish....so , again, why are you here? To read rubbish? Or to preach with no interference from anyone???

 

You're right! Strong education about Birth Control and BC use do cut down on the number of abortions (even though NOTHING will end abortions).

However, some Anti-Choicers don't believe in Birth Control education or even birth control !

 

I do believe in birth control but that wasn't what I was speaking about. I'm referring to the mutilations and babies aborted alive.

 

Oh, here we go with your true agenda....

What mutilations ? What babies aborted alive? Please document....

but remember I do NOT care about such a tiny tiny fraction of botched abortions just as you don't care about how illegal abortions, or having no access to abortions, harm women.

 

Oh no, a true agenda!? How dare I have a true agenda!? Why god why must I have been cursed witht the same ability to form an opinion all on my own!? Please. I have my own beliefs just as everyone else does but feel free to continue to act as if I have something nefarious in mind.

And seeing as how you don't really care what I have to say or attributing your own arguments towards me I can only assume you're not actually looking to debate. It's a shame too because I was enjoying our discussion up until here. Come find me when you decide you want to discuss things like adults instead of making up false positions for other people. Thanks.

 

"""What mutilations ? What babies aborted alive? Please document...."""


That was inconvenient of me to post that wasn't it? Kinda stopped ya and now you don't want a debate because someone wants verification of what you claim.....

You're going to run into that a lot here...adults expect it....

 

Agreed with the evil part, not so much on the misguided/ I have yet to talk to a pro-life advocate who can give an informed argument without relying on subjective morals or religious dogma.

 

I've got to take exception to a part of your comment, you claim you want an adult debate and yet you choose to use words that have no relevance in abortion.

If the pro-life argument is strong enough what is the requirement to wrongly attribute it with babies, there are no babies killed in abortion. Baby is a medical term that relates to a period of time from birth to apporx 1 year old. If you REALLY want an adult debate then surely the starting point should be to use the correct terms relevant to the debate, anything else is just pure emotional hyperbole attempting to project a visual assumption that pro-choice people support the killing a babies .. not true and with respect you know that.

 

>>>Trolling<<<

- - - Updated - - -

Fetuses are babies, because they have a heartbeat.

 

I'd say so, but there are a lot of pro-life women (not just men) who think of THEMSELVES as stupid, that they were not put on earth to reason, only to accept. It's an ethic that could only be developed over centuries in the religious deep south.