Atheists Who Celebrate All The Good That God Causes.

There are some Atheists that interpret the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence (He is all powerful) as meaning that God only PERMITS, but does not CAUSE, human suffering. This thread is NOT for these Atheists.
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There are some Atheists that interpret the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence (He is all powerful) as meaning that God not only PERMITS, but also CAUSES, all human suffering. These Atheists say that Christianity demands that we say that God CAUSES . . .ALL. . . that comes to pass in human history. This thread IS for these Atheists.
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Some of these Atheists say that:
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■ God put bone cancer in children [for example the atheist Stephen Fry says this.]
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■ God put the COVID-19 virus upon the human race
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So?
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So God either causes all things or He does not cause all things.
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So?

So worldwide every year there are hundreds of millions of good things that God causes but no threads are ever started by Atheists celebrating those hundreds of millions of good things God causes --- if God gets the blame for all the bad things He is said to cause, then He also must get the credit for all the good things He causes -- if you want to be
consistent, that is. And you do want to be consistent, I feel certain you do.
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So if God is Omnipotent and CONTROLS and CAUSES . . .ALL . . things, therefore all the hundreds of millions of acts of kindness that occur worldwide every year are caused by God --- and everything else that is a good thing.
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I ask these God-Causes-All-Things Atheists to join me in listing the good things God causes, along with the bad things they say He causes.
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God either causes all things, or He does not cause all things.
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If He causes all things, then God:
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■ caused Polio to be cured.

■ caused all the love in the world

■ caused all the kindness in the world

■ caused all the empathy in the world

■ caused all the sympathy in the world

■ caused all the hospitals in the world to be built

■ caused all the charities in the world to come to exist

■ caused all the homes of people to be built

■ caused the Center For Disease Control to come to exist

■ caused the World Health Organization to come to exist

■ caused all the Super Walmart Stores and Sam's Clubs to come to exist

■ and caused every single thing that is a good thing, to come to exist

I am fully aware that atheists do not believe that God exists, and that they argue on the basis "if God does exist."

So?

So "if God does exist" then all that up there is true. Let us celebrate all the good that God does "if God does exist."

I have more examples that I will post later on . .

 

God either causes all things, or He does not cause all things.
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If He causes all things, then God

■ caused your automobiles to be made and to become yours

■ caused all the money you have, or will ever have, to become yours

■ caused your homes to be heated and cooled

■ caused all your clothes to be made and to become yours

■ caused your pets to come to exist and to become your pets

■ caused all your medicines to be made and to come to be inside your medicine cabinet

■ caused General Motors to come to exist

■ caused your cell phone to be made and to become yours

■ caused all the books in the world that you enjoy to be written

■ caused all the movies you enjoy to be made

■ caused all the music you enjoy to be made

■ caused all the warm sandy beaches you enjoy to come to exist

■ caused all the schools and universities to come to exist

■ caused the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra to come to exist

■ caused all the nursing homes to come to exist

■ caused all the retirement centers to come to exist

■ caused it to be possible for you to retire and enjoy your retirement

 

Why don't you begin with the basics; define what god is.

 

Why should I celebrate the father that sends me to school, buys my food and clothes, takes me on holiday looks after my every need but beats and rapes my Mother and sister every night?

 

Atheists don't believe God does anything, good or bad.
What part of "atheists" are you have problems understanding?

 

The question is usually more like "If god is all powerful, why would he allow X?"

That's a question in the Bible, too. And, the two main answers include that mankind can not know god's purpose and that we're being tested (like Job).

Besides, if the Christian god is real, we're on Earth for 0% of eternity. Thus our happiness with Earth is pretty much irrelevant.

 

If he doesn't CAUSE evil then he doesn't CAUSE good.

 

Do you speak for ALL atheists?

Did you read the opening paragraphs of the opening Post that
you responded to?

JAG Wrote:
There are some Atheists that interpret the Christian doctrine of God's
Omnipotence (He is all powerful) as meaning that God only PERMITS,
but does not CAUSE, human suffering. This thread is NOT for these Atheists.
`
There are some Atheists that interpret the Christian doctrine of God's
Omnipotence (He is all powerful) as meaning that God not only
PERMITS, but also CAUSES, all human suffering. These Atheists
say that Christianity demands that we say that God
CAUSES . . .ALL. . . that comes to pass in human history.
This thread IS for these Atheists. ___JAG

If you read that up there, then why did you ask me this?

"Atheists don't believe God does anything, good or bad.
What part of "atheists" are you have problems understanding?"___Daniel Light

 

If He doesn't CAUSE good, then He doesn't CAUSE evil.

 

WillReadmore,

Interesting points, all.

Did you ever read my old thread titled Human Suffering?
It is on the same subject as your remark
"If the Christian God is real, then we're on the Earth for %0 of eternity."___WillReadmore

Here is one paragraph from that Opening Post:

JAG Wrote:
What is the percent ratio of 100 years to Eternity?

After John Christian had been in Heaven for 200 years,
you'd have this fraction:100 divided by 200 = 0.5 "___JAG

Human Suffering:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/human-suffering.516905/

 

Amen. It looks like you beat me to it!

I think the ability of mankind to guess what god is doing right now is zero - as per the Bible which says his methods are unknown to mankind.

That's related to the problem of using the tools of science to make any determination whatsoever about god. Even if god condescended to take some test we might construct, there would be no way for us to interpret the outcome - or even detect whether he took the test. We can't know. Christianity is by faith.

 

From YOUR post : """So worldwide every year there are hundreds of millions of good things that God causes""

 

I really do not get this argument line.

 

Uh, it's a very short thread so far...read back....

 

Noted.
Thanks.

WillReadmore,

With regard to what you said, have you ever come across
Deuteronomy 29:29 ? Here is what that verse says:

"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things
revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may
follow all the words of this law."__Deuteronomy 29:29

Note the four particulars in that verse:

(1) The secret things belong to God.
(2) The things revealed belong to us.
(3) The things revealed belong to us and our children forever.
(4) The purpose of (2) and (3) is that we may follow God's laws.

What is one example of the secret things that belong to God?
Answer: How to reconcile the Problem Of Evil with evidence
that rises to the certainty-level of 2 + 2 = 4.

What is one example of the things that have been revealed to us?
Answer: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His
one and only Son that whoever believes in Him might not perish,
but have eternal life."

By the way, WillReadmore, are you a Christian?

That's a very good point. The supernatural world cannot be
investigated with the tools of empiricism.

Here is Henry Dodwell on this subject:

"Henry Dodwell argues that matters of religious faith lie outside
the determination of reason. God could not possibly have
intended that reason should be the faculty to lead us to faith,
for faith cannot hang indefinitely is suspense while reason
cautiously weighs and reweighs arguments.

`The Scriptures teach, on the contrary, that the way to God is
by means of the heart, not by means of the intellect . . .(What
is the basis of faith? Dodwell answers that it is) the
faith-producing work of the Holy Spirit."___Henry Dodwell

Exactly! Fully agreed.
Did you ever read my Opening Post in
my Thread Titled "Christianity Is A Faith"
at this link:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/christianity-is-a-faith.572842/

 

Omnipotence is a logical fallacy ergo your imaginary deity is either NOT omnipotent or does NOT exist which effectively negates the rest of the OP.

Have a nice day!

 

Fox,

The point of the Opening Post is this:

I am fully aware that atheists do not believe that God exists, and that
they argue on the basis "if God does exist."

The atheist Stephen Fry says that God put bone cancer in children.

What Stephen fry means is that he does not believe that God really does exist, but
he argues on the basis "if God does exist" -- then, says Fry, "if God does exist" God
put bone cancer in children {because the Bible says that God is Omnipotent and controls
all things.}

So?

So "if God does exist" then He must get the credit for all the good things
that He does such as these:

■ caused all the hospitals in the world to be built

■ caused all the charities in the world to come to exist

■ caused all the homes of people to be built

■ caused the Center For Disease Control to come to exist

■ caused the World Health Organization to come to exist

■ caused all the Super Walmart Stores and Sam's Clubs to come to exist

So "if God does exist" then all that up there is true.

So?

Let us ALSO celebrate all the good that God does "if God does exist."

Do you see the point now, Fox?

If the atheist Stephen Fry is correct and God put bone cancer in children,
then God also caused all the hospitals in the world to be built and
caused all the other good things in the world.

If some atheists are going to blame the God of the Bible for all the evil
in the world because He is Omnipotent, then to be consistent with their
principle they will have to give God the credit for all the good in the
world because He is Omnipotent.

Whether God exists or does not exists is irrelevant to the principle
that if an Omnipotent God causes all the EVIL in the world, then
that same Omnipotent God also cause all the GOOD in the world,
and should get the credit for it.

____________


Of course I hold the Christian view of the God of the Bible, that
God cause all the GOOD in the world and human Free Will causes
all the EVIL in the world. But this thread is NOT about what I believe
about God, rather this thread is about what SOME atheists say they
believe about God.


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Wouldn't need hospitals if disease, accidents, beatings, shootings, and disasters didn't exist.

Wouldn't need charities if poverty and suffering didn't exist.

What? Everyone has a home ?? No.

Wouldn't need it if disease hadn't been created.

See above.

LOL!....But not Sears or Macy's ?? How about Porn shops?



Do you see the point now?

 

Derideo,

Regarding your point about God's Omnipotence:

Since you took the time to read the Opening Post, maybe you
will take the time to consider this post I wrote to Fox where I
said this on the subject of God's Omnipotence:

The point of the Opening Post is this:

I am fully aware that atheists do not believe that God exists, and that
they argue on the basis "if God does exist."

The atheist Stephen Fry says that God put bone cancer in children.

What Stephen fry means is that he does not believe that God really does exist, but
he argues on the basis "if God does exist" -- then, says Fry, "if God does exist" God
put bone cancer in children {because the Bible says that God is Omnipotent and controls
all things.}

So?

So "if God does exist" then He must get the credit for all the good things
that He does such as these:

■ caused all the hospitals in the world to be built

■ caused all the charities in the world to come to exist

■ caused all the homes of people to be built

■ caused the Center For Disease Control to come to exist

■ caused the World Health Organization to come to exist

■ caused all the Super Walmart Stores and Sam's Clubs to come to exist

So "if God does exist" then all that up there is true.

So?

Let us ALSO celebrate all the good that God does "if God does exist."

Do you see the point now, Derideo?

If the atheist Stephen Fry is correct and God put bone cancer in children,
then God also caused all the hospitals in the world to be built and
caused all the other good things in the world.

If some atheists are going to blame the God of the Bible for all the evil
in the world because He is Omnipotent, then to be consistent with their
principle they will have to give God the credit for all the good in the
world because He is Omnipotent.

Whether God exists or does not exists is irrelevant to the principle
that if an Omnipotent God causes all the EVIL in the world, then
that same Omnipotent God also cause all the GOOD in the world,
and should get the credit for it.

____________


Of course I hold the Christian view of the God of the Bible, that
God cause all the GOOD in the world and human Free Will causes
all the EVIL in the world. But this thread is NOT about what I believe
about God, rather this thread is about what SOME atheists say they
believe about God.

 

Certainly. Add Sears and Macy's to the list.

Human Free Will caused porn shops to come to exist.

Yes I do. Here is the point:

If some atheists are going to blame the God of the Bible for all the evil
in the world because He is Omnipotent, then to be consistent with their
principle they will have to give God the credit for all the good in the
world because He is Omnipotent.

Whether God exists or does not exists is irrelevant to the principle
that if an Omnipotent God causes all the EVIL in the world, then
that same Omnipotent God also cause all the GOOD in the world,
and should get the credit for it.

 

JAG Wrote:
■ caused the Center For Disease Control to come to exist

Fox replied:
Wouldn't need it if disease hadn't been created.

Fox, you said disease was created. Who created disease?

 

You OP is premised upon the logical fallacy of your deity having the attribute of omnipotence and therefore being capable of all of the things you are trying to give it credit for.

However the logical fallacy establishes that if your deity exists it cannot be omnipotent and therefore is incapable of all of the things that you attempting to give it credit for.

Without omnipotence you will need to precisely define the shortcomings of your deity which you have not done because you are ignoring your logical fallacy which is common among theists.

The entire rest of the OP premise rests upon your logical fallacy and it therefore pointless to address.

 

I don't know and neither do you.

BTW, I said IF disease hadn't been created.....if your god created the earth then HE created disease....a rotten nasty thing to do...

 

And should get "credit" for all the evil.

 

I can understand agnosticism totally legit stand to make..

But atheism makes no sense whatsoever..
Claiming not to believe in something because it hasn't been proven to you. Pure sillyness.

Example, bigfoot. I don't believe bigfoot exists but i don't make claims that they don't exist. I am agnostic about his existence but seems unlikely to me.
I know people who have seen first hand evidence of it's existence but i haven't. I don't discount people who believe but I myself am not convinced therefore I'm agnostic. But for me to say there is no bigfoot would be just stupid, there is no way I could know that... much more so with God.

Anyone looking for proof of God's existence, absolutely does not get it..