Attack Against Christendom

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kyklos, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Whats that supposed to mean wil? Lethal? The Jews started the war! Britain admited it.
    I already told you what I am up to!
    I gave you several references to the fact you were lied to,
    proving you have made your conclusions VOID THE FACTS, and despite knowing you were lied to you continue to hold a grudge against germany therefore you clearly have a grudge against germany.

    AGAIN WIL:
    sure it does, like so many other countries that booted jews to the curb thoughout history, close to 200 iirr, it proves that hitler hated jewish politics (specifically zionists) not the race itself, if it were the race itself then there is no way in hell anyone would have so much as 1 jew in his armed forces. and many of those were high ranking officers wil.

    It PROVES you have been LIED TO WIL and you dont care, you pass on false information anyway!


    [​IMG]


    They ADMIT THEY LIED to you wil and you dont seem to care!

    [​IMG]



    We have posted PROOF THEY LIED and you simply dont seem to care.

    [​IMG]



    all you care about is arguing minutia in support of the big lie.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    why do you support and defend such monstrous lies wil?

    [​IMG]



    How can you hate hitler when you dont even know the facts wil?

    Seriously, 4 million gassed at auschwitz when we know that no more than 400,000 ever set foot in the camp?

    This is the sign from auschwitz:
    [​IMG]

    Seems someone has a serious math problem



     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, you have a problem with sourcing your information.
     
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  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So then its ok for eisenhower to murder over a million germans by starvation, soldiers and innocent civilians alike holding them with no protection from the elements and denying them food when the red cross suppied plenty?

    Thats ok wil?


    [​IMG]

    Forced to sleep in their piss and ****. Not even a tent!
    Hitler was worse than this?

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So we forgive america for murdering over a million germans including civilians AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER?


    America has so much love!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  4. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry wil I am not going to pay to fly you to germany and russia only to have you tell me you couldnt find adolf hitler to personally interview therefore my sources are no good. get my drift wil?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Damn - I was hoping for 1st class tix.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    The people wanted hitler, they didnt want what the jew establishments were promoting in germany no different than we dont want child porn and pedophilia here wil.
    Christian germans (most of them) wanted it gone.
    That kind of debauchery antigermanism went against their moral compass.
    [​IMG]

    The Europahaus, one of hundreds of cabarets in Weimar Berlin, 1931
    Dubbed the ‘Babylon of the 20s,’ the city centre flourished with youthful activity and explosive sexual freedom. Provocative cabaret shows, excessive drug use, nights of hedonistic partying, open and same-sex relationships all took centre stage in Berlin. There were many strong women in the movement, with performers such as Marlene Dietrich and Anita Berber becoming icons of the time in their lifestyle, art and relationships. It was also the decade of Brecht, the Isherwoods and the Bauhaus movement in art and design.

    [​IMG]

    The Bauhaus Building in Dessau, Germany
    In the documentary entitled Metropolis of Vice, Legendary Sin Cities, which offer a snapshot of the times, we hear that, ‘Berlin was what sexual daydreams wanted to be. You could find almost anything there, and maybe everything.’ This kind of creative freedom of thought and expression was a revelation, and an offence to the austere and conservative extreme right wing that was on the rise, namely Hitler and his Nazis.

    [​IMG]

    A publicity photograph for the film Der Blaue Engel (The Blue Angel) 1930, featuring Marlene Dietrich
    source

    Not to mention how the germans got screwed by the jews et al that orchestrated the treaty of versailles, not to mention the boycotts which caused nationwide german unemployment starvation and incomprehensible inflation.

    I doubt you even know or heard about the Haavara compact. hitler kept his promise!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Your gaudy pictures do not mean squat.

    Blaming the multinational treaty of versailles on Jews is just plain BS.
     
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  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Nothing that runs contrary to your agenda means squat to you wil
    that way you can remain wil-fully ignorant and continue to preach propaganda as truth.
    Oh? Who was involved? (Names of people)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Gaudy pictures and vids are of no interest to me on ANY topic.

    If you had a legitimate issue, you could find trusted sites with reviewed documents.

    The treaty of Versailles was created by multiple countries coming together.

    The result was agreed upon by the leaders of those nations.

    The treaty was considered too harsh by some and way to lenient by others.

    I'm of the general opinion that it was probably too harsh based on what I've read. Without a live and let live approach, it pretty much exploded. That should have been recognizable at the time.
     
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  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, a nice pleasure cruise on da nile

    Do you need like passionate purple writing with little kisses at the end of each sentence too?

    Sorry pal, its in the format its in, thanks for validating your strong desires to maintain wil ful ignorance.

    Ah so you can see why german christians wanted it stopped.

    Ah huh, once again wil:
    Whats the matter wil, havent done any research?

    As usual simply parroting propaganda as fact?

    You cant cite ANYTHING you have been jabbering about!

    No one was gassed wil!

    [​IMG]

    Of course thats not credible as far as you are concerned because it didnt come from a jewish peer reviewed website that tells you how and what to think since you just confessed you cant do the job for yourself.

    Which Jewish website do you want me to cite for you wil?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope you don't mind if I join this discussion and also hope you realize that it is possible to reject the holocaust story as possibly the most grotesque conspiracy theory ever without holding any anti Jewish or pro Nazi sentiment.

    After all, the ADL found that:
    “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts."(1)

    I suspect that even more people reject the fraudulent and very profitable holocaust narrative but were afraid to speak up because of draconian "holocaust denial" laws in about 16 "democracies".

    I lived, worked and studied in what was then W. Germany in the early - mid 1970s where I had the opportunity to hear eyewitness accounts of holocaust survivors, German WW2 survivors, combat Veterans of multiple armies and other people who just got caught up in the carnage.

    First, as long as the victors write the history, you're only going to hear the Allied propaganda unless you really believe that only the "other side" used propaganda.

    America's propaganda ministry was the OWI ( Office of Wartime Information) which worked hand in hand with Hollywood to saturate gullible minds with early frauds like "human skin lampshades", shrunken heads, "human skin pocketbooks", homicidal gas chambers(2) and similar grisly fables to demonize the German people.

    Re:
    Germany's greatest fear was against Bolshevism / Communism and about 80% of Russia's early Communist government was Jewish(3). The Jewish individuals who were targeted for persecution were targeted primarily because of their real or suspected support of Communism.

    If Europe's Jews had been persecuted for just their race / religion, they would not have been allowed to hold such high positions in Germany's National Socialist Party(4) or about 150,000 Jews would not have been able to serve in Germany's Military with some Jews rising to Germany's highest ranks and receiving Germany's highest military honors with the full knowledge of Hitler and the German High Command(5).

    When discussing or studying WW 2 and the holocaust, I think that is important to remember that about 80% of the American people were against sending more young Americans to die in yet another European war. Neither Hitler nor the German people wanted to fight the West. Their most compelling concern was Stalin's planned invasion against Germany, the rest of Europe and beyond(6).

    It was FDR and Churchill who wanted Germany destroyed even if it meant using Churchill's propagandists and America's OWI - Hollywood propaganda consortium(7) to deceive millions of Americans.

    If the noble Allied goal was freeing Europe from tyranny and atrocities why were the Western Allies complicit in some of the worst war crimes and willing to sacrifice Eastern Europe to draconian Communism?

    Thanks,



    (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED


    (2) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.


    (3). “Putin: First Soviet government was mostly Jewish”
    https://www.jpost.com/jewish-world/...st-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish-317150

    EXCERPT “Russian President Vladimir Putin said that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish.” CONTINUED


    (4) “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED


    (5) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED


    (6) "Time to Face the Truth About World War II"
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-margolis/time-to-face-the-truth-ab_b_282379.html

    EXCERPT "the 1941 joint Soviet-British invasion of Iran to grab its oil, an act every bit as illegal and reprehensible as the Soviet-German joint invasion of Poland.

    Soviet propaganda later tried to cover up Stalin’s plan to attack Europe, claiming his forces were outmoded and unprepared, and generals incompetent. According to the party line, Stalin only signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact to buy time to prepare for war. This view still prevails today.

    Stalin was an even worse mass murderer than Hitler by a factor of three or four. He alone ordered the deaths of 6-7 million Ukrainians in the mid-1930’s. Stalin was also a much cleverer strategist, war leader and diplomat than Hitler, who stumbled into a war that Germany could not possibly win and for which it was woefully unprepared." CONTINUED


    (7) "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
    https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/

    EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

    But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    My forebears lived in various cities in the Netherlands during WWII.

    One of these families hid a family of Jews in a false attic/chimney.

    German troops came door to door searching houses for JEWS - including that family's home. These troops made it clear that if Jews were hidden, the family would be shipped out right along with the Jews. They failed to find that hidden Jewish family, thank the Lord. But, throughout the city German troops rounded up large numbers of Jewish families.


    Your arguments are ridiculous.

    - how many believe something is NOT an argument for truth.
    - whether the holocaust was carried out in some sort of perfect order is IRRELEVANT. There certainly were Germans who tolerated Jews for various reasons even though that was against policy.
    - whether movies are accurate is NOT an argument for truth.
    - whether Jews were considered by Germans in government to be the highest risk is irrelevant. One can investigate WHY they carried out the holocaust, but the point is that they DID.

    Frankly, I'm really disgusted with your attempt, which is pure deflection.

    My mother's side is about half German. I've visited relatives there in Hamburg long enough ago so that I heard descriptions of the firestorm that resulted from the bombing.

    Germans are good Christian people then and now. We are JUST AS CLOSE to this kind of behavior as are humans everywhere. To me, that's the most important takeaway.
     
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  13. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    The demonically possessed Lauren Boebert (Fascist-Colorado) announces itself.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Theres the BIGGER point in that there is NO EVIDENCE OF A HOLOCAUST as PROVEN in a France Court!

    How do you have a holocaust without gas chambers wil?


    [​IMG]

    No 'self proclaimed' witnesses to the alleged gassings showed up at the trial!

    They knew the consequences for perjury!

    The judgment of the court is in red above, faurison proved the stories were lies in a court of law, it was not possible! Period!



    Furthermore:

    [​IMG]


    One of my personal favorites is when we swing the camera to see the opposite wall of the alleged Majdanek "gas chamber" lol

    Horrifying site! If you look closely you can see the fingernail gouges in the cement wall where they tried to escape when they saw the gas come through the shower heads! :fart:


    [​IMG]



    You can have your own pesonal beliefs but you cant have your own private truth!

    Otherwise you got a lot of splainin to do!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
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  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am disappointed every time I run across an individual who has been so effectively brainwashed by the fraudulent & insatiably greedy Holocaust Industry (1), (2) and residual Allied propaganda. It is not surprising, however, to see people who are unwilling or unable to think for themselves taken in by the glut of grisly holocaustian theme parks and omnipresent Holocaust Industry marketing campaigns.

    Nowhere in anything that you have written have you communicated anything but unsupported, fact-free opinions:

    For example, you wrote:
    1."- how many believe something is NOT an argument for truth."

    I never claimed that the number of believers in something determined it's truthfulness. I only intended to show that fewer and fewer people are being deceived by what is possibly the greatest conspiracy theory in modern history.

    2. "- whether the holocaust was carried out in some sort of perfect order is IRRELEVANT. There certainly were Germans who tolerated Jews for various reasons even though that was against policy."

    I just showed and supported that there was no policy preventing Jews from holding high ranking positions in Germany's National Socialist Party (NSP) or military

    3. "- whether movies are accurate is NOT an argument for truth."

    Again, I never said that the accuracy of movies had anything to do with the truth. I simply cited an example in which the Holocaust Industry used and uses deliberate frauds to dupe the gullible.
    Do you really believe that the Germans made lampshades and pocketbooks out of human skin?
    If the Holocaust Industry would deliberately try to deceive the world about one grotesque hoax, why believe anything it's peddling to gullible rubes?

    4. " - whether Jews were considered by Germans in government to be the highest risk is irrelevant. One can investigate WHY they carried out the holocaust, but the point is that they DID."

    Yes, it is relevant that Jews occupied some of the highest positions in the military and the NSP since it demolishes the prevailing myth is that ALL Jews were hunted down and persecuted just for being Jewish.

    Meanwhile, there is no hard evidence that the holocaust happened as advertised.
    For example, about 850,000 people were supposedly gassed, buried, dug up, partially burned and reburied at Treblinka in multiple mass graves.

    However, after two detailed forensic examinations by 2 independent teams, no mass graves were found. (3), (4).

    Think about that for a moment. About 850,000 people were supposed to have been gassed, buried, partially burned on open air pyres which would have left mountains of bones and teeth but yet nothing is left except for a few pre war, marked Christian graves.

    The same is the case with all the so called "Death Camps". The only evidence of a genocidal German agenda is the fraudulent testimony of a few self serving professional liars whose stories either contradict each other, defy common sense or are from outright frauds who were never in any camp(5), (6).

    Re:
    Your sentence doesn't even make sense.
    In what way are the hard facts I have presented "pure deflection" when you have been entirely unable to refute even one of the facts I have presented?

    Re:
    Please make up your mind. You could not possibly believe the slanderous holocaustian lies and anti German demonization marketed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry AND believe that the: "Germans are good Christian people then and now."
    Which is it?



    (1)"17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (2)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


    (3) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED


    (4) “Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves”
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT “A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.” CONTINUED


    (5) "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony"
    https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony

    EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED


    (6) “Dozens & Dozens of the Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust”
    http://wolfgangrudolf.blogspot.com/2016/12/dozens-dozens-of-most-outrageous-tales.html

    EXCERPTS:
    • Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen

    • William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years

    • Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis

    • Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses

    • Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated

    • Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED
     
  16. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fascist Whore Lauren Boebert claims these are the Last Days Before they all go to Prison

    "But it is true that only in personalities does the demonic receive power, for here the form not only grows by nature, is not only imprinted on existence, but confronts existence by demanding something and appealing to the freedom and self-mastery of living persons."
    --Paul Tillich​

    Lauren Boebert is not a New Testament Christian but a "Christian Nationalist," which is a fascist heresy rather like in the Book of Revelations represented as "The Whore of Babylon." In the Book of Revelations, "whore" symbolically means "Idolatress" and the name fits for Boebert who is whoring herself to the "Chosen One" Donald Trump, and to a corrupt nationalism. "Babylon" symbolically represents "Rome" or the political power of the state. Boebert is the whore apostate that pretends to be a spiritual queen.

    Beware of the anti-Christ. Theologian James Hal Cone (1938 – 2018 ) wrote, “Any theology in America that fails to engage white supremacy and God’s liberation of black people from that evil is not Christian theology but a theology of the Antichrist.” One interpretation of the word “AntiChrist,” is that it does not simply mean in opposition to Christ (Anti-nonchrist), but in opposition to Christ yet appearing as the Holy (Antichrist). The Antichrist only has the semblance of orthodoxy (from Greek ὀρθοδοξία, ortho meaning “right, or straight,” and doxía meaning “opinion”).

    "Those possessed of demons in the New Testament know more about Jesus than those who are normal, but they know it as a condemnation of themselves in their condition of cleft-consciousness. The Ancient Church called the Roman Imperial Government demonic, because it made itself equal to God, and yet prayed for the Emperor and gave thanks for civic peace, which he assured."
    --Paul Tillich


    [​IMG]

    Tillich writes further on the demonic in the Christian Bible: “An outstanding symbol of holy demonry is Moloch, who for the sake of saving Polis [City] devours their first-born—the original of all political demonry. The symbol most impressive for our time, comprehending the final depth of holy demonry, is the "Grand Inquisitor," as Dostoievsky visualized and placed him opposite Christ: the religion which makes itself absolute and therefore must destroy the saint in whose name it is established—the demonic will to power of the sacred institution.”

    “This God, the God of the prophets and of Jesus, utterly destroys every religious nationalism: that of the Jews, which he combats constantly, and that of the pagans, which is repudiated in the command to Abraham.”
    —Paul Tillich (source: The Interpretation of History)
     
  17. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Martin Bormann and Hitler's Private Secretary Documentary:
    The Persecutions of Christians by the “Christian Nationalists.”

    "There was to be no law but Hitler, and ultimately no god but Hitler"
    —Gill, Anton (pdf.)”


    Kirchenkampf (German: 'church struggle') refers to the persecutions of the Christian churches in Germany during the Nazi period (1933–1945) (wiki). The leaders of the persecutions, torture, and murder of Christians were Nazis Alfred Rosenberg and Martin Bormann whose goal was to de-Christianize Germany for a racialized form of Germanic paganism. The Nazi Party saw the church struggle as an ideological struggle.

    “Hi! I’m a Christian Nationalist!”
    --Marjorie Taylor Greene and her fellow Nazi Lauren Boebert
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Just as the Republican American Fascists claimed Christian values there real aim was to abolish Christianity especially in Germany, but you can hear the same Republican talking points today. Historian Louis Snyder wrote:

    “As Nazi power increased, Hitler began to denounce Christianity. ‘‘He [Hitler] denounced Christianity, claiming that (1) it was a religion that sided with everything weak and low; (2) it was purely Jewish and Oriental in origin; (3) it began among sick, exhausted, and despairing men who had lost their belief in life; (4) Christian ideas of forgiveness and sin, resurrection, and salvation were just nonsense; (5) the Christian idea of mercy was altogether dangerous; (6) Christian love was silly because ‘love paralyzes’; and (7) the Christian idea of equality of all human beings meant that the inferior, the ill, the crippled, the criminal, and the weak are to be protected.’’(Snyder, Louis L. (1981). Hitler's Third Reich: A Documentary History. New York: Nelson-Hall, p. 249)(pdf.).”

    The United States stopped teaching American History and especially the rise of fascism in Germany before WWII (only battle dates are taught but Nazi ideology is avoided to give greater meaning to the war). In US education the persecution of Christians is suppressed and instead focuses on the Jews and other victims. “Nazism wanted to transform the subjective consciousness of the German people – their attitudes, values, and mentalities – into a single-minded, obedient Volksgemeinschaft or "National People's Community”…the Nazis disliked universities, intellectuals and the Catholic and Protestant churches, their long term plan being to "de-Christianise Germany after the final victory". The Nazis co-opted the term Gleichschaltung (coordination) to mean conformity and subservience to the Nazi Party line..."

    “Hitler ultimately believed ‘one is either a Christian or a German’ – to be both was impossible.”

    -- Blainey, Geoffrey (2011). A Short History of Christianity. Hawthorn, Victoria: Viking.

    Martin Bormann was much closer to Hitler than all the other Nazi leaders, yet you will hear little about him in American education: “Nazi ideology criticized Christian beliefs such as "meekness and guilt" for they "repressed the violent instincts necessary to prevent inferior races from dominating Aryans".[13] Aggressive anti-church radicals like Alfred Rosenberg and Martin Bormann saw the conflict with the churches as a priority concern, and anti-church and anti-clerical sentiments were strong among grassroots party activists[14] (Ibid).”

    And German Church leader was on board the persecutions of Christians:Ludwig Müller, Hitler's choice for Reich Bishop of the German Evangelical Church, which sought to subordinate German Protestantism to the Nazi government. On 31 July 1945, one of Adolf Hitler’s Reich Bishop, Ludwig Müller, went to heaven after he committed suicide after the Christian Nationalist were defeated.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  18. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    I finished reading Paul Tillich's book "The Socialist Decision," (1933) which is about the complex inter-conflicts between socialism, religious socialism, capitalist class domination (bourgeoisie), the Cults of Origin such as Blood and Soil cultural elements, proletariat (literally meaning "without property"), Marxism, Hegelianism, economic liberalism, and democracy. The Nazis burned this book, and then offered Tillich a prestigious Chair of Philosophy at the University of Berlin if he denounced it. Tillich laughed in their face. And the Nazi would have never keep their promised offer since Tillich knew the Nazi paramilitary was looking for him for a comment he made in private to an old friend that the Nazi Field Marshal ,Goebbels, was a drug addict (which he was). The book is well written and easy to read, but the interplay between all these political forces are complex and change in time. His understanding of these forces is from his experience in Germany witnessing the rise of the Nazi cults of Blood and Soil.

    A key concept of capitalism is the belief in cosmic harmony. Tillich makes the distinction between natural harmony and metaphysical harmony. We know the harmony thesis today as the "Free Market" of Laissez-faire capitalism, or liberalism. Tillich uses the term bourgeois principle, which "views reality as a set of objects that can be rationally controlled (SD, p. xxii)." The "prebourgeois" represent feudalistic origin-cults that ally themselves with the bourgeois for joint power. With these definitions the following paragraph should be understandable.

    "By virtue of their common belief in harmony, the interpenetration of liberalism and democracy is yet further deepened. Liberalism believes in a natural harmony which comes to pass through the free play of the productive forces. Democracy does not believe in natural harmony; it does believe, however, that nature can be subjugated to reason. It believes in a metaphysical harmony which is certain to prevail in the historical process. Nature is knowable, and can be put into the service of humanity, because the categories of the human mind are the elements that give nature its structure. Society can be rationally shaped because the human race is involved in a process of education toward reason, the goal of which will somehow finally be reached. This belief in harmony, whether in the one form or the other, is the most profound principle of the Western Enlightenment, though it often remains unrecognized. It is the principle that has given the Enlightenment its optimism and has given bourgeois society its world historical power. If the belief in harmony is shaken, the bourgeois principle is shaken. The bourgeois principle cannot be protected from this shock by giving up the liberal belief in natural harmony, while maintaining the belief in a metaphysical harmony to be achieved through human action. Without the liberal element, democracy’s expectation of progress is nothing more than a belief in miracles. For without the liberal premise,[natural harmony] democracy cannot explain how, out of the arbitrariness of all individuals, a power can emerge that educates toward reason and achieves the reasonable. It cannot do without the concept of natural harmony in its description either of the individual or of society. If it nevertheless wants to give up this concept, it is compelled to fall back on prebourgeois, origin-related elements (SD, p. 51; brackets added)."

    Tillich has other insights into the relationships between the socialists, bourgeois, the state, and the proletariat. Remember Tillich wrote this book just before the Nazi's took power in 1933. His talent for dialectical analysis is applied to the dynamics between the various groups mentioned above and the analysis holds up even today to interpret the rise of the Trumpian Cults of Irrationality in American. His book is an excellent demonstration of dialectical reasoning that can be learned and applied to other subject matters. Tillich believes that religious socialism can provide resolution into the inner-conflicts of socialist belief, socialist view of human nature, socialist concept of society, culture, community, and economics. His book is only 160 pages, but he makes so many good points that it took a lot of effort to completely read. I can understand why the Nazis wanted Tillich to denounce his own book.

    "...for the sake of socialism the proletariat must fight for its class interest over the bourgeois interest. It must use the means of power in order to overcome power in principle. It must deny the state as an instrument of bourgeois class rule, and at the same time must conquer it in order to establish proletarian class rule. The goal of the conquest of the state is the abolition of state, power, and class. In the present, power is opposed by power so that in the future, power can renounce power. Socialist belief thus once more shows itself to be a belief in miracles, both in its interpretation of human nature and in its interpretation of society. The bourgeoisie took advantage of its power to effect its own class rule. It broke with the belief in a harmony between the bourgeoisie and society in general that it originally held, although it still maintains it as an ideology. The proletariat, or, more precisely, the militant and power-bearing group of the proletariat, is to give up voluntarily the power that it has won. Here the bourgeois belief in harmony is to prove true, even though it has never done so as regards the bourgeoisie itself. Here power is to overcome itself by reason (SD, p. 76)."
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2022
  19. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    ...continuing from post #718 on Socialism and Capitalistic Cosmic Harmony.


    The Socialist Inner-Conflict with Free Enterprise Economics


    Tillich describes the inner conflict that socialism has with capitalism and its reaction to unregulated capitalism and their political allies. His historical analysis is still applicable to today’s political and economic situation in America. The bourgeois’ belief in natural cosmic harmony is reinforced and justified by the discovered rational laws of economic liberalism (unrestrained Laissez faire market capitalism) that provides for the greatest good for the greatest number of society (the liberal principle). However, the proletarian experience has been different with cyclical economic crises resulting in inflation, then deflation, unemployment, imperial wars, and general insecurity resulting from the political alliances between the bourgeois and pre-bourgeois feudalism. These allied groups force socialism to embrace the same liberal view of the economy as rational in order to counter the irrational influences injected into the economy by feudalistic groups such as large landowners, artisans, and even the peasantry that accept liberalistic harmony. Socialism rejects nationalism while forced politically to embrace “free trade” over import duties, and to protect certain groups such as industrial workers from severe exploitation by counter measures such as unionization, but these efforts end up only being temporary. Tillich describes this situation from personal experience in Germany:

    “The temporary improvement of market conditions for a particular domestic group, for example, cannot delude the proletariat, even if it profits from it, since it has to pay for its advantage in terms of an increase in the price of goods in its own country, and, in the long run, by a worsening of sales because of retaliatory measures. Thus everything appears to drive the proletariat toward an affirmation of the free market. But at the same time, everything speaks against it. The proletariat experiences the destruction of the liberal principle [natural harmony] in the frightful irrationality of the economic crisis.20 It knows from experience that the liberal method in economics leads to periods of terrible pauperization, and furthermore that even under the most favorable of market conditions, the share of the proletariat in the goods produced is extremely modest in comparison to the share of the opposing class. It experiences the class struggle as a reality that is inseparably bound up with the free enterprise economy, a reality that annuls its claim to be the most rational economic scheme (SD, p. 90; bold text added)."

    Socialism seeks to replace the “crisis-creating state of unrestrained competition” with a centrally planned economy, and jettisons faith in harmony in the market below with the democratic belief that “Rationality in economics is not to be abrogated but is to be placed into the hands of human being (Ibid., p. 90).” Anti-liberal socialism must work with groups of disparate conflicting interests who are at the same time manipulated as a class by the bourgeois who accepts metaphysical harmony of reason. Because of class divisions socialism must “fall back upon powers of origin” (i.e., the values connected with the past, such as regional, cultural, and ethnic heritage) to struggle the bourgeois and their cult of irrationality allies , but at the same time appeal to economic reason.

    For more details regarding this political dialectic see Tillich’s “The Socialist Decision” (pdf.), pages 89-91.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
  20. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Once upon a time in America....

    Don't be a Nation of Suckers...and Losers.
     
  21. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    GOP MAGA “Christian Values” Candidate & Former Corrections Officer Randy Kaufman
    Observed Choking the Chicken near Pre-school.


    “Every form of tradition or bond is seen, on the soil of capitalism, as a means of class rule.”
    -- Paul Tillich, “The Socialist Decision,” p. 87 (pdf.)."


    Kaufman sounds like a Christian Nationalist to me!

    “Nothing is more important than standing against the Godless, progressive, left-wing, socialist, Marxist, communist, Democrat Party Movement to destroy America,” a post from July 9 says, according to Law & Crime. He also railed against “baby killing leftists.”
    —Republican Randy Kaufman (source)

    GOP MAGA Christian Randy Kaufman loves children!

    MAGA Candidate Charged With Indecency Near Preschool
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The central premise of socialism is the social ownership of the means of production - as opposed to private ownership.

    Obviously, this has nothing whatsoever to do with our system in the USA - regulated capitalism.

    We believe in private ownership. Even those things our government wants done are carried out through private enterprise whenever reasonably possible.
     
  23. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Demonically possessed MTG runs away from the Truth.

    "High, (sic) I'm a Christian Nationalist!"--Marjory Taylor Green
    [​IMG]

    Marjorie Greene Runs Away From an Interview After a Caller Grills Her
     
  24. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    In America Christianity is essentially fascist embracing the tools of the state of sadism, torture, and murder. This demonic force is in politics, religion, and sports. In the name of Christianity the Washington D.C. fascist Christian Nationalists spread death, and human misery all over the earth. America is truly the Whore of Babylon seeking world domination.

    Leticia McCormack, a leader at Rock Church in San Diego (the largest church in San Diego with a private cult school campus), founded and led by former NFL player Miles McPherson, was booked in jail Monday on a charge of murder, three counts of torture, and three counts of willful cruelty to a child in the death of Arabella McCormack, 11 years old, the San Diego County Sheriff's Office reported. The church website is all about raising money, by a ignorant money seeking football player.

    Arabella McCormack tortured to death by American Christians.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Paul Tillich Interview by Psychologist Carl Rogers on the Demonic

    I found this video interview by psychologist Carl Rogers of the philosophical theologian Paul Tillich during 1960 at San Diego State University. Tillich discuses his writings regarding the concept of the demonic that he defines as ambiguous destructive structures of self-sustaining dynamically generating creative evil. Tillich developed his theological concept of the demonic from participating in WWI, and his experiences with the Nazis. Tillich wrote in “The Interpretation of History” (pdf.) the following passages:

    “The demonry of the state, church, and economics is visible when the holiness of these social forms, their right to sacrifices, is misused destructively—wherewith as a result the self-destruction, namely the shaking of the belief in their holiness, is connected. Here, too, the dual face of the demonic shows itself in its terrifying dialectics as it does in the sculptures of primitive religions.”

    And again…

    “But it is necessary to interpret some structures on which society is built as symbols of demonic powers, and it is necessary, in making these symbols manifest to open the struggle against the demonry of a period. There is no other way at all, as everything that points to the unconditioned has a symbolic character and can never be grasped actually, empirically. In symbols and only in symbols shall we speak now of the demonries of the present.”

    The video interview of Tillich has his comments on the concept of the demonic at the following times:

    2:10 minutes
    ... a a describable nature I've been interested for example in the fact that you discussed the demonic aspects of man I don't know whether you see that as a part of his nature but anyway that I'd be I'd be interested in your interviews and our guide to the nature of man now your question is very far-reaching ...

    8:28 minutes
    ... man's essential nature and his estranged nature ambiguous the realm of the ambiguity of life I would say under the condition of this ambiguity nobody is able to create this fear of freedom now let's suppose that it exists in some other way I can come to this later when we speak about the demonic then I ...

    10:25 min.
    ... person in its completeness yet what impresses me is that even imperfect attempts to create a climate of freedom and and acceptance and understanding seem deliberate the person the move toward the toward really social goals I wonder if it is you're thinking about the demonic aspect that makes you ...

    11:43 min.
    ... come here where are the forces which create a situation in which the child receives that love which gives him later on the freedom to face life and what to escape from life into new houses and psychologists and I leave that question open but now you are interested or about the demonic and you are not ...

    12:32 min.
    ... professor in its University of placement Germany a little article little pamphlets demonic and there is me not to speak of the Fallen man of sinful man or any of these phrases lost that I saw from two points of view structures which are stronger then the good will of the individual and one of these structures ...

    13:42 min.
    ... of the conflict of society by the socialist movement and especially by the early writings of karma and in both cases I found a phenomenon for which these traditional terms like fallen men and sinful men are not sufficient the only sufficient term I found in the New Testament use of the term demonic which ...

    16:01 min.
    ... of great forms of political faith struggle with each other and every step to overcome them as usual easy consequence to drive the people more deeply into them now this is what I meant we see demonic so I hope I made one thing clear that I don't mean it in the mythological sense which of course has to ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022

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