Being Poor is NOT a virtue!

The liberal theory seems to be that no matter what you do you could get run over by a bus tomorrow so why try.

We can say with a high degree of certainty that if you quit school at age 12, never learn to read well or write, don't learn to do basic math, have lots of children by different men, have no father in the home and no one working to mentor you or provide examples then your chances of a lifetime in poverty are very, very high. And, that's what liberals keep encouraging people to do. Amazing.

Being poor is also not a curse over which you have no control. Being poor is not a causative factor in crime.

According to liberals, if you're a drunk, it's not your responsibility. According to liberals, if you are a junkie it's not your responsibility. According to liberals, if you are a criminal it's not your responsibility. According to liberals if you refuse to work it's not your responsibility. According to liberals if you abuse children it's not your responsibility. According to liberals, well, you see where this is going. You are not responsible for anything, ever. There is a minority group that has been selected by liberals to be responsible for everything.

 

Wow, theology. I don't think that's what he meant if you look at the other quotes attributed to him. See the lilies of the field, neither do they toil nor do they earn... I think he honestly meant that living a life devoid of possessions provides clarity.

I used to reward myself with nice things. The buzz of shopping quickly wears off and you're left with a closet full of clothes you don't wear. I had an experience, got very spiritual, ... I'll just say I have the best life now that I choose to live off less and work less.

 

Yeah IDK. I'm sure there are pros and cons to both. Poor isn't very fun. Probably just wanted those stuck to feel better about themselves. Once the smoke from partying clears love is the only real enjoyment in life, but for men in America that is as much hell as heaven. Not to mention, I get bored if I don't work. Start to go nuts.

 

I was as poor as the other kids on my street, but pops kept us all laughing and I really didn't notice just how poor we were until high school.

 

My main issue is health care the reason I keep my income down to $4,000 a year and live with family is if I earn more I will not qualify for the states Charity Care Law which is my only shield from a major medical problem when they pop up, adding in I have a Thin Credit File so have no credit rating with the lack of ability to pay. That is why expanding medicaid or getting an exchange would be good I could work more not that I consider performing for people work I love it and make likely two to three times more money. But right now there is no incentive with my medical issues to do that.

But I have concentration issues multitasking from cerebral palsy they suspected for years so cannot handle most work, am in a wheelchair and well can only do simple work and those jobs are not around so do what I can. Is it ideal no but education will not help me, I will not go on SSI if I can work and I don't consider myself that disabled and will gladly pay something for health care if it covered enough. But like I said even if I max out my hours in my profession of training I couldn't afford insurance and the related costs at this time.

Sometimes one is poor and I will note at full income I'm still under, at or just over the pverty line (last rarely) so am poor yet just making more money which I want to do. Seriously 80 hours a month working good hours in my area can be profitable and fun, I could get money into my IRA again and get more credits for social security. But what can I do health care is a big issue and very poor I have more options sadly.

 

Oops! Actually Jesus was talking about a life devoid of worry, not devoid of possessions. The rich have their role as well as the poor. The tomb Jesus was buried in, temporarily, was purchased by a rich man. Remember that we're talking about the same God who said, "don't show partiality to the poor," (Leviticus 19:15) which is the point of the OP. Being poor doesn't give somebody a greater right to OPM, and unlike the days of Jesus, being poor is more often a lifestyle choice than a condition forced by a caste system for the reasons I outlined.

 

And this is why so many of them are stuck in these crappy circumstances that they hate. They still don't realize that we all reap what we sow. If you sit there and curse the ground for not growing you any crops but you didn't bother to plant anything, that's not the ground's fault. You're simply getting what you've put in. No one can change their circumstances if they keep trying to put the blame on someone else. Responsibility is empowering. It gives you the power to change what you don't like. This is what they don't get. And they will never be able to understand this as long as they are deliberately running in the opposite direction - away from responsibility. They are running from the very thing that could help them the most.

They are trapped in this horrid mental prison of arrogance and ignorance. Were they only ignorant, they would be easy to help. A simple education would solve the problem. But their ego is their own worst enemy. They are so convinced that they are right about everything that there is just no getting through to most of them. At no point does it ever occur to them that perhaps people in better circumstances might have some pearls of wisdom to offer them that could help them with their own situation. And when such advice is offered, they immediately shoot it down without even considering it or trying it out to see if it works. Because it is more important to them to be right than to be happy. And they don't realize this on a conscious level.

 

Odd how that sounds exactly like the justification for a caste system, the idea that poor people are simply evil, and rich people are simply good.

I guess it's 'cause if that's not true, then our economic system is unjust. So rather than contemplate changes to the system because it isn't serving the needs of most of the people, we have to blame the people themselves for not living up to the brilliance of the system.

 

Let's be a bit more specific here - wealth follows certain kinds of "hard work," and really that hard work isn't hard at all; those who labor for years in the fields or the factory will likely never see great wealth. They are cogs in a machine, a human tool to be used by those above them who hire and employ them. Should such a laborer ever expect to achieve great wealth, though? It wouldn't be realistic to do so, because of the nature of their work and what they produce.

At the opposite end, you have people who take their money and invest it, and so they are able to become very wealthy without laboring! In fact, they "earn" their wealth on the backs of those laborers! I don't know how fair a system that is, to be honest, but at least even the laborers should technically have the potential of investing and doing what the other wealthy have done. There are no barriers stopping them from doing the same things and getting wealthy by them.

But still, this leaves the question of just how ethical a system this all is. Why should people get wealthier by far than a day laborer for not working? It's a bit odd to consider.

 

Who said that poor people are evil and rich people are good? Did you just tell another lie?

I hold people responsible for their actions. I think that public assistance should be tied to drug tests and credit reports to ensure we're not subsidizing bad lifestyle choices.

 

Ok, let's inject some logic here. First off, those who work in any industry can retire wealthy with sound money management skills. Nobody is consigned to live in poverty. But also, those who work in these industries are reaping the yield for their choices. Most startup businesses end up failing which means that those who succeed and earn more than a factory worker took a risk that a factory worker was unwilling to take. Playing it safe has it's charm and advantages, but it doesn't given anyone a right to complain they aren't as successful as those who risk their capital and work even harder to get a venture off the ground.

And time and time again you on the Left demonstrate that coveteousness is all you have. I work for my boss at an agreed upon salary that I consider generous. It doesn't matter to me how much money my boss is making because of me because I'm not focused on what others are making. Coveteousness directs your focus on what you don't have, fueling the notion that it's "not fair" that somebody has more than you do. It's the most bestial mentality imaginable to see what others have and to seek to wrest it from them out of a warped sense of fairness.

 

It sounds like you have a tough situation and I feel for you. But hoping in an expansion in medicare I think is a mistake. We're talking about taking a dismal failure of a program and doubling down on stupid. Medicare doesn't rise to the level of true, competent health care coverage, it doesn't even come close. It's getting to the point where even liberal columnists are writing about how many poor people will lose their coverage because of this law. It doesn't improve anything for anyone.

 

Are you kidding me? His whole OP was about blaming poverty on the poor and attributing their state of existence entirely to their wrong doing. An insensitive, ignorant and immoral opinion. Hence I said, Jesus said to be poor was a virtue and that we should treat ALL people as if they were Jesus Christ himself - WITHOUT QUESTION.

 

I meant that's not what Jesus was implying.

 

Oh, so you dont think Jesus thought being poor was a virtue, even though he said it?

 

Well I guess its a good thing I don't give a crap what some over idolized desert prophet had to say.

American society is simply to large to ever be able to take care of our poor to the degree that other nations do.

 

That is just complete nonsense. America has plenty of wealth to do exactly that - it merely lacks the political aptitude and social culture and thus the will power.

 

What you don't understand is that wealth isn't there for you to redistribute however you see fit, it's there to create even more wealth. If you took all the wealth this country had and distributed it as you saw fit, not only would you not solve poverty, but you would ensure no more wealth would be created. People don't make money just to have it confiscated by thieves.

 

I don't think Jesus said it was a virtue, I think he implied it was a blessing.

But poverty is NOT something Jesus would have bestowed upon you without your permission, or if it wasn't a hindrance to spirituality.

 

It's what happens when people don't, as Hank Hennograph says, "read the Bible for all it's worth". Blessed are the poor in spirit does not imply that being poor is a virtue, especially coming from the very same God who said not to show partiality to the poor. (Leviticus 19:15). And applying it to today's political culture where poverty isn't a consignment by a steeped caste system, but rather a result of a string of poor choices, is specious at best.

 

When your desperate anything is better than nothing. Medicaid is not perfect but it would offer options and I for one at the free clinic have my primary there as a licensed nurse practitioner and she is great and knows how to work in a tight budget if they add alot more of those who needs doctors for the small things. I want doctors to deal with more complex care not a basic UTI or deep cut an LNP should do those.

What is the Republican alternative if I work my best hours and days to my limit of ability to handle I make still under the poverty line, its just how it is this is Busking and making jewelry and doing other things I can do.

But when your in my shoes what is the plan I can take what is being offered under a new law and vote to keep it or continue until I can't go on anymore and my health goes downhill then die, likely kill myself if in to much pain and suffering or I go blind or have something big happen. I already decided to not go for any medical procedure if its to expensive like heart issues I plan to let nature take its course if not in pain much. Frankly I'm wearing out physically, mentally and will to keep going on at least Obama and the Democrats gave me hope I can finally get ahead. I have nothing else to hope for.

Is poor a virtue, no. But sometimes that is where you end up. Hawkings if he was not a genius would be poor say his IQ was average.

 

You should know that the Left leaning Supreme Court struck down the penalty for states not expanding medicare under the Obamacare plan. Most states have not committed to expanding medicare and some have expressly opted out. It's important to understand that it's not out of animosity toward you or anyone else in need, but because states simply can't afford it. This problem is systemic in Obamacare, the whole thing doesn't work. There are no easy answers when it comes to medical care. More people are alive today because of advances in health care and people's access to it, but health care is still a finite commodity and choices are made that leave many on the short end of the stick. Socializing health care has not proven to solve that problem in the UK, Canada, or anywhere else it's tried. Care is denied routinely, but even worse, the amount of money you have doesn't change the equation unless you can travel to America. This is why it's a mistake for us to compromise what has become the last beacon of hope for people world wide, a health care system second to none.

Your situation sounds very hard and my heart goes out to you, it really does. You bring a human element to this discussion like few can on this forum. But Obamacare isn't going to improve anything, far from it; it's going to exaserbate an already difficult problem with mandates that raise costs and reduce access, especially for people in your situation. But don't take my word for it, ask a few of your doctors. They're on the front lines of these changes, especially as it pertains to medicare. Keep an open mind because what they tell you may be at sharp variance from what you've been led to believe.

 

In some cases it is yes.

Yes, that AS WELL.

Indeed, hence why I dont advocate doing so.

Sure, but they will make it despite some of it being confiscated for appropriate purposes. Its the outcome the matters.

 

"Even though the poor are often rough and unrefined, we must not judge them from external appearances nor from the mental gifts they seem to have received. On the contrary, if you consider the poor in the light of faith, then you will observe that they are taking the place of the Son of God who chose to be poor."
-- St. Vincent de Paul
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com...r_is_to_Serve_Jesus__St._Vincent_de_Paul.html

I agree, he was certainly a complete altruist.

 

What makes being poor a virtue is this:
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life...?lgZ=en&ccZ=&vrZ=&scZ=&add=Read&show=Journals

(*)(*)(*)(*) man I even found one from Muhammad:

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "The poor will enter Jannah five hundred years before the rich.''
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?242909-Virtues-of-poverty
You have confused different kinds of poverty and have generalized all of them.

Being poor is indeed about giving your possessions to those who need them. Bad choices should not deter this endeavor - Jesus himself said do not ask the motive of the man who asks for your cloak or your shoes etc.

In a society that is consumerist, with ABUNDANT POVERTY that had NOTHING to do with choices, these teachings are still very much relevant as they were they day they were uttered.