Bipartisan Lawmakers Preparing Plan to Avert Debt-Ceiling Crisis

I am using facts and results. Refute them. The Dems took back the Congress a year before the 2008 recession. You want to compare the Rep policies to help mitigate the depth and length of the 2001 recession and the Dems to the 2008 I am all for it.

 

Quote; “He came in on a strong upward curve in revenue growth…..”

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah[/quote]

Can't deal with the facts?

Those are ACTUAL numbers not estimates.

Up

Bush was totally cut out of the 2009 budget.

You should stop laughing so much and deal with the facts.

 

The Senate's only control is the 60 vote count. Without budget reconciliation, the Senate, with the house rules, must pass separately the 13 appropiation bills on a 60 vote pass. That's it. So, the question is what will the house do to ensure that 60 votes will pass. This is why that only two, DHS and DoD appropriation bills will more likely pass and the rest won't which would mean either a government shutdown on those agencies by Oct.1, or a continuation bill to keep the government funded. But that is it. It is why Budget Reconciliation has been used even when Trump was President and the GOP controlled both chambers in the legislature.

According to Rep. McCarthy, it is only the President and the House. The House does not want to negotiate with Schumer. And they are not negotiating for the debt ceiling here. Time is not on the side of the GOP house. Given time, eventually, the receipts and the accounting tricks will not help the GOP house for long.

Spending cuts have come, but those spending cuts were transferred from one program or another. Second, the GOP has passed three, count them, three, debt ceiling increases in the Trump Administration alone. And Trump wanted certain things in that budget. He got most of the them, but not all. Each fiscal year, the IRS faced certain operational budget cuts but got increases in the technology area. That is one example.

 

You are using some facts and mostly factoids in your post here Blues. You left out the 2007 recession for instance. You also left out the peace dividend that began in 1992, which had an impact on tax revenues. YOu also had a tax bill that was signed in 1990 by GHWB as well. And you left out a whole bunch of other facts to try to prove your point but failed to prove it at every turn. Your entire premise is based on correlation. Might as well use whether Jupiter aligned with Mars and Venus if you want to continue that diatribe.

 

No I'm using facts and specifically am citing the 2008/2007 recession which you are calling a 2007 recession. Bush and Rep Congress handed the new Dem Congress a strong economy and a paltry $161B deficit. A year before the recession. And I pointed out to you the GHWB tax increase bill which he signed for the promised Dem spending cuts which NEVER CAME. And then they ran against him with the "he lied about no new taxes" and the MSM went in concert and he lost to Bill Clinton. So why should Rep ever trust Dems when they say spend now cuts later?

My entire premise is based on the history and the direct results of those policies which were used in two periods with the same predicted results by economist worth their diploma's. You have produced NOTHING to refute anything I have posted. So deal with the history and the facts.

 

And you incessantly try to tell me how things work. The budget reconciliation bill only needs a simple majority to pass in the Senate.

There is ALWAYS a budget reconciliation between the two houses of the Congress. That House passes it's budget and the Senate passes theirs and they go into reconciliation. Then both houses vote on the reconciled Omnibus Spending Bill. You seem to have it backwards.

Schumer is going to do Biden's bidding. There is NOTHING stopping Schumer from passing a debt ceiling bill in the Senate, he could do it tomorrow morning. He could pass spending cuts too. He just can pass new revenue bills.

Trump wanted SPENDING CUTS. He didn't get them. But I don't care I care about NOW. Biden and the Dems are trying to spend us into oblivion and this is the only way to get them to stop. And saying no the ceiling is just the first step. The Reps twice have gotten us on sound budgets once with actual surpluses, why do you opposing using those same policies again instead of the failed Dem policies as clearly demonstrated in the worst recovery in modern history and Biden's first two years.

 

I guess you did not read the house rules. The Freedom Caucus DO NOT WANT budget reconcilation at all. They want 13 separate appropriation bills to be passed separately. They will get the votes needed to pass the house, but not the votes needed to pass the Senate because there will be enough senators to vote against most of the appropriation bills. Understand now?

The Freedom caucus does not want that at all. What they want is negotiations with the POTUS and the Budget and leave the Senate Dems out. That is their strategy. It is why the Freedom Caucus does not want budget reconciliation. This article proves I'm right.

to have a budget reconciliation, a resolution must pass the house. About half the dems may vote for it in the House, but not sure what Rep. Jeffries will do. He may oppose it not to give an inch to the GOP. This means if the Dems oppose the resolution and the Freedom Caucus opposes the budget reconciliation, then the bill won't pass and the GOP leadership is stuck with the deals they made with the Freedom Caucus. Congrats Blues and the GOP on the deal with the un-American freedom caucus.

They do have disagreements and Schumer is more interested in keeping the Senate Democratic. Thus, he wants his say in the budget process. Otherwise, he will not go along with anything. So far, President Biden has not budged on his stance. He has time on his side, the GOP does not. In the end, the GOP will either nullify what the Freedom Caucus wants and risk a nonconfidence vote by the Freedom Caucus, or the Freedom Caucus will be to blame for any budgetary woes, and thus the GOP.

Trump wanted some budget cuts, namely for the poor and indigent, forest service, general services, and some other areas. But those cuts went to DHS, DoD, and a couple of other GOP favorites. It is why his budget was always in a significant deficit with $779 billion in FY 2018, $984 billion in FY 2019, $3,129 billion in FY 2020, and $3,668 billion in FY 2021. All of these budgets had Trump's signature and negotiating skills and those all went up per DJT budget proposals and GOP. So, what overall cuts were you claiming then? None apparently. Now, apparently, it has gone up even when Obama was president. His last budget proposal was $665 billion with some emergency spending on natural disasters, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

Now, before you get your tongue wagging again, I realize that Fy 2020 and Fy 2021 had something to do with Covid and the emergency spending that ensured the protection of Americans. But you cannot ignore

 

The recession from NBER was from December 2007 to June 2009. So, if you are going to use facts, make sure your facts are accurate. By intentionally making it from 2006 to 2007, you misused the facts to meet your political agenda. Nothing worse than trying to manipulate the facts that are not even accurate.

https://www.nber.org/research/data/us-business-cycle-expansions-and-contractions

 

I'm really to the point that I don't care. Not about our credit rating, not about any specific person getting reelected, and not about what cuts (that simply MUST happen) might do to me personally. Austerity is called austerity for a reason, and it's well passed time we had a lot of that here in the good old USA.

Some years back, I gave myself a little project, where I charted US Federal Government spending per capita in inflation adjusted dollars. It probably won't surprise you to learn that there were spikes during WWI and WWII, but they quickly came back down to a more sane level of spending increases, to the extent that we should EVER spend more. Keep in mind that I'm talking total spending PER PERSON, not total spending.

The problem came during I think the early to mid-90s, when per capita spending caught up to what we were doing while under mobilization for WWII, and just kept climbing up and up and up. This was roughly 05ish I did it, but I'd bet you money that I don't have it's only gotten worse since then. Think about it... We are spending more money, per person, during just a regular old year than we did at the height of WWII, when we were cranking out more tanks, planes, soldiers, and associated stuff as was physically possible. A LOT more. I say we go back to the budget from the first year after the WWII spending went back down, index that for population growth and inflation, and run with that.

If it was good enough for our grandparents, it should work for us, too. Though back then, able-bodied people who refused to work weren't given a bunch of free $hit, so...

 

For starters, most able body persons do work. But if a person is 100% military disabled and service-connected disability, he is totally and permanently disabled no matter how the VA calculates that disability rating. So, why force someone who appears able bodied and by law, cannot work in order to collect the benefit and then now make them work? Are you able-bodied? Just because you can't hold onto your bowel movements on your own does not mean you are not able bodied, does it? I have a friend who has a colostomy bag and works part-time. Sometimes it is a matter of facts and circumstances no matter what it is. Some diabetics, type 1, are totally and permanently disabled because they have a whole host of complications you can't see on the surface. Then you have people like Wade Wilson or Mary Tyler Moore who are type one diabetics and they are able to work. Same with CKD and a whole host of other diseases that can make someone disabled based on their job history and some who are still able or have to work for one reason or another.

But as a society, we have become fat and lazy. That is not something that politicians did, that is something that TV advertising did. We are now a pop-a-pill generation. Want to lose weight pop a pill. Want to have better sex, pop a pill. And the list goes on. And then we have people who have serious injuries and pain, take oxycodone, and are now permanently hooked and are now getting over the internet mixed with fake fentanyl, among other things. With 40% of our population not fit for military service of those who are the age, that is a real concern. We have tried exercise, but that takes commitment and consistency, something we are not good at anymore. We have tried nutrition, but then the cancel culture from the right gets in the way. and thus the child's BMI keeps going up. We have lawyered out the school playgrounds where no injury can occur unless someone tries really, really, really hard. And that list goes on.

But as for the budget, we do the blame game. Both sides do it equally. If the GOP was really sincere about cutting the deficit, they will go after the military-industrial complex and the procurement area where fraud is occurring at a much greater rate than any other program. And that is where the increase in the per capita on the deficits comes in the most. We also have more generals today than we had at the height of WW2, with one-fifth of the number of personnel in the armed services, active, reserve, and national guard. So, we have developed the "everyone gets a piece of the pie" and if we don't, we moan, complain, go on social media on how unfair it is, etc. And thus we are a long way off from the days of the Grandparent's days. Some for good, and some for the worse.

 

Back in 2007, our exports of services should have included Republican policies…..they would have shortened a global recession from 18 to 9 months.

 

You're not wrong.. However, the same could be said for Democrats as well as they too have contributed substantially to the debt. This path of spending is utterly unsustainable. Regardless of your party affiliation, any honest person would see this as a MAJOR problem to this nations future. Granted, many in this nation merely regurgitate what is being told to them as gospel. Like KJP, that to this day still utters that this administration reduced the debt by 1.7 trillion which is an utter fallacy.

 

The Reps lost the House JANUARY of 2007 a year before the recession began, stop trying to make desperate excuses for the failure of the Dems to enact policies to help mitigate the depth and length first of the slowdown and then the recession and then the recovery.

 

Yes like I said. And it is called the 2008/2009 recession, you're down to bickering about a couples of days now for lack of rebuttal.

 

That's not how it works NOW. And so what difference would it make the 13 separate bills would EACH have to be reconciled and then voted on by each house. And under current law the final reconciliation bills only require a simple majority by the Senate.

They will negotiate with the President or the Senate but it is BIDEN who is leading the charge for the Dems. The Freedom Caucus is not in control here they are only ONE faction. But this is about the debt ceiling not the budget reconciliation we are far from that at this point.

A reconciliation bill is voted on by BOTH HOUSES. It cannot become law unless BOTH HOUSES pass it and the President signs it. Do you understand now?

Schumer is going to acquiesce to Biden for now.

Trump wanted across the board up to 10% and he never go any of it. HIS budgets were NEVER passed. Congress passed the budget they created.

And should NEVER be used as some comparison they will forever have an "*"

 

In addition, the 2007 Democrat-controlled Congress was responsible for all the foreclosures, and for said reason, Sec. Paulson was seeking approvals for his Dec 2007 mortgage relief plan.

 

NBER

Working Papers

Headline;

How did the Recession of 2007-2009 affect the wealth and retirement of the near retirement age population in the health and retirement study

Recession of 2007-2009??????

And a working paper published by the NBER

You should contact NBER, and tell them that they’ve made a mistake.

 

Bickering over a couple of weeks and a title now is all you are left with.

In the meantime you can go and tell Investopedia and

The Great Recession of 2008: A Timeline and Its Effects
All the Key Events of the 2008 Recession
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/the-great-recession-of-2008-explanation-with-dates-4056832

The Great Recession—sometimes referred to as the 2008 Recession—
https://www.history.com/topics/21st-century/recession

And even the Federal Reserve

Permanent and Transitory Effects of the 2008–09 Recession
https://www.frbsf.org/economic-rese...-and-transitory-effects-of-2008-09-recession/

Now got anything of substance to add?

 

THE CURRENT STATE OF THE WORLD, EXPLAINED:



The GOP has agreed to increase the debt limit that Biden and the Dems breached, in exchange for just a penny or two on the dollar in planned future discretionary spending.

 

But you did not include it in your little chart in the correct spot. You placed it in 2006 when the Dems took over the House. hence my point

 

Because that means you need 60 senators to vote for the bill in order to pass. Given how divisive our politics are today, you won't get 60 senators on 11 of those bills. It is a back end way of a government shutdown, brought to you by the Freedom Caucus and the GOP. Congrats. A budget reconciliation resoulotuion has to pass the house and senate for budgetary reconciliation to work. It is usually automatic, but with the Freedom Caucus and hard line GOPers in the Senate, that is not happening anytime soon.

The GOP leadership right now has said they are not interested with the Senate, just Biden, and that is it. They are trying to frame this for 2024 that Biden is the great divider. It won't work. Eventually, the GOP leadership will have to get the debt ceiling passed one way or another without or without negotiations.

Isn't that what I was referring to but did not go into specifics. But again, the freedom caucus is against the Budget Reconciliation. And according to the House Rules that SOH McCarthy has signed onto, that is what is supposed to happen. Otherwise, one of the Freedom Caucus will vote for a no-confidence vote and we will have another 18 rounds of voting for a new Speaker.

NO, he want budget reconcilation and he wants Senate Dems and House GOP to negotiate with the Budget, but not at the expense of the debt ceiling or the economy,.

Keep telling yourself that, but he never did that or wanted that when he proposed his own budgets to Congress. Not a single one.

WTH are you talking about? I wasn't comparing anything, just stating a simple fact of the deficits in FY 2020 and 2021 was unusual and to not blaming Biden for that.

 

No this is the point where we cut spending.

When a teenager has spent $6,000 on Daddy's credit card you don't then pull out a platinum card and hand it to them.

 

NBER, BLS and other entities have titled the late 2000 Recession as “The Recession of 2007-2009”, thus, are they right, or wrong?

According to you, they are wrong!…..”it is called the 2008-2009 Recession”

Ok, then let’s give a crying baby what he wants; a 2008-2009 Recession.

Happy?

 

The Senate is in the hands of the Democrats.
If DEMOCRATS choose to require 60 votes to pass a budget bill, then they will need to figure out what 60 of them will support, that the House will also support, and Biden will sign, and until they can figure that out, they won't have budget authority.

We have to get the budget under control in order to save Social Security and Medicare.



We did just fine with far less spending, as recently as the Clinton Administration. Now we need to start making some measured incremental, and for now small, cuts in planned discretionary spending and the folks who claim that is 'impossible' are misusing the word.

The Eco/Green Weirdos Need Some Tough Love. “The notion that grown-ups need a hug because Floaty the Polar Bear might soon show up on the streets of Manhattan is beyond embarrassing. That we’re now subsidizing this nonsense is a sure sign that karma won’t be kind to this once great Republic.”

Karma will be fine, we are going to make some small, necessary, incremental moves in the right direction.

'The public education indoctrination mill has been very successful at terrorizing people with the climate change hoax. Late millennials and early Gen Z types really believe that there is no point in living a full life because Earth is soon going to die from weather and stuff.'

Well, time to face the real world and grow up.

 

You can call it the 2007-2008 and I will call it the 2008 it makes not a twit of difference. Do you have ANYTHING of substance to add here? You have refutted nothing I have said.