Boeing 737 Max, software problems and Indian engineers.

Does her husband know that she's been talking about this?

 

Guilty of a design flaw which led to the crashes. I thought that you were questioning whether they are guilty.

No.

 

Agreed.

 

I read the article, now I want Boeing’s rebuttal. I want to know why did they think the MCAS did not require notification and training. What were they counting on? Was this a foreseeable problem?

I do find it troubling that Boeing did not find the reliance on one sensor problematic.

 

That's assuming that it was the fuel tanks exploding which brought down TWA 800.

 

No redundancy/single point of failure? Seriously?

 

At what point in time would you have started to say this? I note that the article is from March.

 

Boeing like all big businesses has to pay off politicians to flourish.
It is a corrupt process.

 

The problem arrived because Boeing got outplayed more from Airbus. Boeing planned to build a new developed aircraft but then Airbus announced the A320 neo, A320 neo long range and so on. Airbus collected massive orders. Boeing panicked and just redesigned the old 737 hull with A320 engines. The engines are too big for the 737 fuselage, so they moved the engines forward. This creates instable flight profile. They installed MCAS to correct that, which was flawed.

 

Solution? Seperation of state and economy— you can’t bribe that which has no say.

Before we start crucifying the American Business Man, let’s remember who is responsible for the marvels and wonders of today, a life of luxury that was once unimaginable .

 

Imo he may have been non specifically alluding to a possible boeing cost saving measure gone amuck. If some salesman says they are going to save you a lot of money.....you have a responsibility to understand (and check to verify) what you are giving up.... especially in maters of life and death consequences

I have also worked in the software outsourcing business. You are correct about the importance of HR When you bring in engineers locally. But there is an ongoing effort to move entire projects abroad because of the “significant cost savings”. It looks great, but you certainly do lose control of project management..... the outsourcing company is responsible for deliverables and milestones. The outsourcing company controls how the job gets done, And one way the job gets done is by using inexperienced engineers who cost less and who then themselves become more valuable due to the added expertise now on their already inflated resume

These issues are always a risk when totally outsourcing a project to a different country.... things are done differently there, people have different values.... and frankly may think that western values are a little silly and impractical

This may be true. I can imagine a closer value match due to a more similar cultural back ground

Yes, this is much better... because airbus still owns the project. They drive things like HR and have no bebifit to pretend that people have qualifications that they do not

 

So, fight for a separation of state and economy, you can’t corrupt where there’s no opportunity to do so.

 

My guess is that the system was designed and developed by otherwise talented people... but who never the less did not have a historical background inculcated into them. Sometimes actual experience is invaluable. Cost saving probably looks foolish.

It may also be the case that outsourcing may have been driven by a need to vastly accelerate the project to meet looming airbus competition. Of course catastrophic failure has few fathers, so we will likely never know exactly what were factors driving these decisions

 

Boeing is guilty. The FAA is guilty and the airlines that bought the 737 Max are guilty. Airlines, both domestic and foreign became to rely on the FAA to ensure the aircraft they purchased was safe. Which means the airlines got lazy and didn't bother to do their own research into a new aircraft design. Like sheep led to a slaughter house. The FAA has lost all credibility now and Boeing is struggling to fix the issues that might have been caught if the FAA was actually involved with the certification process. Isn't that what taxpayers are paying the FAA to do?

 

This is supposition, not documentation. I still have seen no evidence of bad code, collusion, or self-inflicted blindness. There must be a preliminary report about MCAS, I want to see it. Someone might have suspected problems, how was that dealt with? Who signed off on MCAS as being reliable to fly? What simulator testing was done? What flight testing was done? Who gave the final ok and based on what criteria?

Boeing may be morally and legally liable, and if found so must be held accountable, but more importantly, if that is true, how and why did it happen? Because if it was greed for profit they failed miserably. There are a lot of upper management engineers and upper management executives who need to man up, come clean, and explain truthfully. WTFH? And let the chips fall as they may.

 

You may be onto something there, but separating the state from the economy is probably impossible. Bribery may not be an entirely accurate description of how business interacts with government. Special interests now have to bribe when it can, and always pay protection money to the corrupt ruling political class.

“When bad things happen in Washington, we assume the problem is that our national leaders have given in to seductive outside forces, the “special interests”, from time to time we erect laws and rules to protect politicians from these temptations. But what if we have it backwards? What if the greater culprits are *inside* the halls of power in Washington rather than on the outside? Some at the heart of Washington power have hinted at this cold, hard reality. As Edward Kangas, former global chairman Deloitte Touche, put it: ‘What has been called legalized bribery looks like extortion to us … I know from personal experience and from other executives that it's not easy saying no to appeals for cash from powerful members of Congress or there operatives. Congress can have a major impact on business … The threat may be veiled, but the message is clear: failing to donate could hurt your company.’”. EXTORTION, "How Politicians Extract Your money, BuyVotes, And Line Their Own Pockets, Peter Schweizer, HMO, NY, NY, 2013 p. 3.

 

Could this sink Boeing? Also, what are the 700 pilots suing for?

 

The FAA wasn't involved with the certification process? Unbelievable. Have they EVER been involved with the certification process?

 

A historical background to know that redundancy is required in engineering to avoid a single point of failure? I can only assume that they are engineers. And it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for any engineer to not know this basic engineering concept, let alone an entire team!

 

Well lets start at the end and work our way backwards
There was in fact a single point of failure
And from that, i draw the conclusion that there was some flaw in the system
Based upon my own experience with Indian software development outsourcing
They try to use less expensive resources (read inexperienced resources)
And they figure if any problems come up, they will be identified and sorted out at that time
.... which they think is more cost effective than hiring experienced people to do it perfectly the first time.
Of course, in this case, the problems are becoming evident in an unfortunate way

Btw, i would make the distinction between software engineers and aeronautic and mechanical engineers.At some point the specs of mechanical engineers are handed to software engineers. It is not clear if the some amount of the mechanical engineering was also outsourced. That seems likely. And, again based on my experience with the Indian culture.... they would have puffed the resumes to indicate non existent experience.... .
You are certainly correct to surmise that this error should have been caught at several levels.... and i have speculated why that might have happened

Here is an only semi relevant stories of visiting an Indian software companies headquarters. Thy had fairly nice grounds, including flower beds. The flowers had grass growing among them. In theory, it would not cost so much to hire gardeners to eliminate the grass..... but they did not follow up on this detail. Likewise, in the headquarters building, there was a lovely wooden hand rail running up the stairway of the main lobby. But when the columns were painted, the workers carelessly slopped paint on to the hand rails. There was a guest house for visiting executives. Naturally it had screens on the windows to keep out mosquitoes. The screen in my room had large holes in the screens and consequently many mosquitoes to keep me company. There are many such stories

 

Are you saying that it might not have been intentional?

 

Yes, i think that is likely
One thing for sure.... the regular us based team run this job, i doubt they would have ever let these error(s) through
And i think it is no accident the error happened (exclusively i think) on an outsourced project

Fwiw, i think a us based team would have had multiple levels that would have flagged this... so that even if a manager wanted this design to save money....there would have been a hewn cry from the trenches

Mind you i am not saying these are bad or untalented people. But they do have a different culture. And part of that culture is that you do what your manager says and don't ask questions

 

I don't understand. The outsourced work would've been tested, right?

 

This is Boeing. They knew exactly what was going on. They played a poker hand and lost.

 

This is Boeing. They knew exactly what was going on. They played a poker hand and lost.