Breaking: Proposed Plan to Block Donald Trump from Taking Office Sparks MAGA Fury

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Kode, Dec 27, 2024.

  1. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    Or what? You will offer another ineffective response?
    I posted the holding. The ruling. The decision. The finding with the force of law.
    I'll post it again:

    Held: Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature
    of Presidential power entitles a former President to absolute immunity
    from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive
    constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presumptive
    immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. There is no immunity for unofficial acts

    Now.. point out the part which proves your claim that the court dealt with something other than the immunity issue before it.[]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2025
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  2. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    And thus, no one has committed the crime of insurrection.
     
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  3. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    As people are often charged with multiple crimes concerning the same act or series of actions, this does not explain why they were not -also- charged with the crime of insurrection.
     
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  4. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Because that is what he encouraged with his talk of fighting and violence. He could not accept that he lost and encouraged his disciples to be aggressive in their support of him and demonstrate their loyalty to him If he wis..........he demands that the "peaceful " transition of power take place. When he loses, he bellyaches, blames and fosters rage that turns into violence as he plays the victim.

    He is one sick dude. . What we have seen as a sampling.......BEFORE he has taken office is a sign of the turbulent times ahead........and the destabilizing of the planet.
    This is what the MAGA voter WANTED ......and are now relishing in it. Just like their leader.....they care less about consequences as they believe none will affect them directly. and could care less about how others are hurt , diminished, or brutalized by these bully tactics ( and threats of war)
    "national security " has served as excuse for many destructive actions based on power grab , territorial grabs etc.
    How do his rhetoric help maintain or regain peace on the planet (and discourage wars ) Tensions have risen world wide due to his being re elected. And is justified. He is a walking wrecking ball.......and his path is coved with casualties .
     
  5. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does, the DOJ felt that a crime with a penalty of 20 years was what they wanted to prosecute. There would be no reason to prosecute insurrection that carried a lesser sentence and would be served concurrently.
     
  6. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    You have no rational or factual basis for your statement.
     
  7. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Every bit as much as you had for yours.

    At some point the Defense or judge was going to question the Prosecution about going above and beyond / pound of flesh and all? You know?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2025
  8. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't really hold any water considering prosecutors often throw everything that they can at a person in order to get something to stick. Judges never question that. They question as to whether a charge is appropriate, but they never question "going above and beyond / pound of flesh and all".
     
  9. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    But in this case going for Seditious Conspiracy was a slam dunk. Many witnesses (damn near the whole country) and miles of video.
     
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  10. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Except that Trump was never charged with Seditious Conspiracy. The one charge that was against him that uses the word "conspiracy" was "conspiracy to defraud the government of the US"....which only carries a 5 year maximum penalty. Insurrection carries a penalty of a fine and 10 years. Going by your "logic" of "wanting to go for the most time in prison"...they should have went for insurrection instead of conspiracy to defraud. Not to mention insurrection would have prevented him from running for Prez also while conspiracy to defraud would not. Even seditious conspiracy would not have prevented him from running for Prez.

    In either case, your argument still does not hold any water. You claim that the prosecutor wanted to charge him with something that was "more serious" and that the prosecutor didn't want to go "above and beyond / pound of flesh and all" because the judge, according to you, would "question the prosecution" for doing such. Yet we all know that prosecutors routinely charge people with every little thing that they can in order to get something to stick. And judges never question such actions. So, again, your excuse doesn't hold any water.
     
  11. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    You’re grasping. TRaitor tRump was a disgrace to the oath of office of President of the United States. And will be again, to what degree is all that remains to be seen.
     
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  12. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to show me how I'm "grasping". It is a fact that Trump was never charged with Seditious Conspiracy. It is a fact that he was never charged with Insurrection. And it is a fact that a prosecutor will pile on charges on someone hoping at least one thing will stick, and judges never admonish them for it.
     
  13. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    First of all, before you butted in, the discussion was about IF insurrection or seditious conspiracy had been committed on J6. Seditious conspiracy had, in fact been committed.

    TRaitor tRump was charged with plenty, which would have put him in prison for the rest of his natural life.
     
  14. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    So, you've never claimed or implied that Trump committed Seditious Conspiracy and/or was charged with such? Or that he should be?

    If not...then why are you posting in this thread since its about a proposed plan to keep Trump out of the Whitehouse?
     
  15. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    You're what happens when someone comes in, in the middle of a discussion and try's to take control by framing it to his advantage.

    I believe this was the progression of my argument with "Mungo", his point was that "since nobody convicted of "insurrection" tRaitor tRump or anyone else could not possibly be guilty of insurrection and in fact an insurrection didn't take place regardless of what they actually were charged with or convicted of.

    My contention is/was that many people were, in FACT, charged with AND convicted of Seditious Conspiracy, which IS a more serious crime with double the penalty and the two laws describing insurrection and seditious conspiracy are worded very similarly. Therefore tRaitor tRump COULD be charged with Seditious Conspiracy. We never discussed what tRaitor tRump was actually charged with because Mungo was so hung up on insurrection we never manged to get off the X of insurrection. :)

    Then you came along and have been trying to re-frame the argument, so that you could claim a win and add a merit badge to your sash ... I guess.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2025
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  16. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    Mine is supported by the fact criminals are often charged with several crimes of varying degree, not just the one crime with the biggest penalty.
    You, on the other hand, have nothing.
     
  17. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    Why isn't insurrection a slam dunk?
     
  18. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    Simplistic nonsense.
    Conspiracy to commit sedition - incitement of insurrection - is not at all similar to the commission of insurrection.
    Except, of course, there's no proof he conspired with anyone to incite insurrection.
     
  19. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    NO, I have the fact that the attackers were charged with an even more heinous crime.
    It could have been had the DOJ went that route.
    Sure it is, read the two laws, both are potential consequences of trying to overthrow our government. One much more consequential than the other.
    Actually there was but, since the American electorate effectively "pardoned" tRaitor tRump by reelecting him, it will never go to court. We'll have to wait for his coming crimes for justice, IF the Supreme's don't find more ways to circumvent the Constitution in his favor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2025
  20. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    Which does not in any way preclude lesser charges - like insurrection -or explain why lesser charges were not filed.
    As the DoJ charged exactly no one with it, it must have disagreed.
    I did. And I demonstrated the factual and practical difference.
    There is -no- evidence Trump engaged in seditious conspiracy.
     
  21. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Nor does it demand lesser charges, the simple explanation is that a sever sentence was easily achieved without lesser charges that would have NOT increased the actual prison term of the sentence.
    The only thing that can be concluded is that seditious conspiracy charge was enough to get a maximum sentence.
    18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
    Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

    18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
    If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

    re·bel·lion ri-ˈbel-yən

    1: opposition to one in authority or dominance

    2a: open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government

    insurrection /ĭn″sə-rĕk′shən/
    noun
    1. The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.
    2. A rising against civil or political authority, or the established government; open and active opposition to the execution of law in a city or state.

    Analysis of insurrection and seditious conspiracy shows the two to be very similar except that the latter imposes a much stiffer penalty.

    Trump Is Obviously Guilty of Sedition
    https://newrepublic.com/article/166068/trump-sedition-guilty-january-6-committee-referral-doj

    Donald Trump accused of multi-part conspiracy over 6 January attack
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64071723

    Those are just two articles out of pages of articles that show evidence that tRaitor tRump conspired to commit sedition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2025
  22. Mungo Jerry

    Mungo Jerry Newly Registered

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    You choose to miss the point. Since it is clear you will continue to do so, I will let you.

    Note the use of the terms "engages in" and "conspire to"
    And thus, the factual and practical difference between the two crimes.
    Thank you
     
  23. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Why thank you! I got it that you have a ax to grind so strict adherence to your position is a must.

    In fact there were many possibilities of how the charges could have been brought.

    Look up conspire. It appears to me that you’re confusing it with “aspire”.


    Engages is “a few or one”. Conspier is a large group acting in concert. In this case both were attempting to overthrow our government.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2025
  24. Moolk

    Moolk Well-Known Member

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    There was no attempt to overthrow the govt lmao.

    That has been debunked already.
     
  25. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Illegally overturning "the most free and fair election in recent history" would have resulted in a Constitutional crisis that would have been an "attempt to over throw the govt". Nothing to laugh about.

    Chris Krebs explains why President Trump's claims of election interference are false
    Christopher Krebs in charge of the new Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. Krebs, a lifelong Republican ... it's hard once you take that oath to uphold and defend the constitution from threats foreign and domestic, it's hard to walk away from that. And if I can reinforce or confirm for one person that the vote was secure, the election was secure, then I feel like I've done my job.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/election-results-security-chris-krebs-60-minutes-2020-11-29/

    It's already been proven.

    Trump charged with 4 felony counts for attempt to overturn the 2020 election
    Former President Donald Trump was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on four counts related to efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election
     

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