Brexit means getting the hell out asap.

What is bleeding obvious to you is loony tunes to most. Sorry.

I cannot imagine any study concludes that Britain has high social mobility because I simply can't imagine anyone but a lefty whinger conducting such a pointless study in the first place.
Inequality study sponsored by the Torygraph. Nope. Don't expect that to sell any copies.

Examples of social mobility in my life, apart from me and my entire family...
here's a good one.
Highest earning member of my peer group. Works in Formula One, mum's a junkie and dad's a tramp.


What do you feel qualifies you as working class?
Are you the coal mining son of a coal miner?

Frankly I doubt it.

You are middle class mate, same as the rest of us. Socially mobile.
If you are uneducated or unskilled, it is perfectly with in your capability to become educated or skilled. It's not a class issue and it's not a poverty issue either. Social mobility is yours for the taking, if you choose not to, don't come whining to me.
Class warriors are on the same par as racists in my book.

 

Foot stamping and huffing seems to be the order of the day.... much peeved at the lose of comfortzones

 

Yep, I can see you all sitting around your Daily Mail and tutting in perfect unison.

You just can't do content. Social immobility in the UK is well understood. Even the politicians can admit that its deteriorating further, such as the social mobility commission noting "Those born in the 1980s are the first post-war cohort not to start their working years with higher incomes than their immediate predecessors"

There's a lot of blubbering here! I'm sorry I'm working class but don't conform to what you expect. I appreciate its a scary proposition for you, so take time to digest it!

 

I remember a case where a lottery jackpot winner was asked what he intended to use his money for; the reply was 'To buy a villa in (he named some Spanish resort notorious for non-stop boozing and not much else!) and live there.' Subsequently I heard that absence of aspiration described as 'The poverty of desire.', meaning that riches are wasted on someone who has zero desire for the enhancement of their life. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that lottery winner karked it with alcohol poisoning soon after moving there.

 

An intellectual, claiming to be working class on the internet doesn't make him so.
Far from being a scary proposition for me, it just a meaningless one.

Social mobility in this country is such that none of us are confined to any class.

I will however concede this to your point. Political classes will loose from our leaving the EU.
It is their jobs and career opportunities that are guaranteed to be reduced from this outcome.

Sad loss of parasites. I cry for them.


While the Daily Mail is a newspaper I don't read, it is not lost on me that as the best selling newspaper in the land (or is that the Torygraph?) it as as reflective of social opinion as any newspaper can be. To dismiss and ignore the sentiments and sensibilities it appeals to, is to ignore the political reality in this country.

So fun as it is to place yourself in opposition to MSM opinion, it does rather place you at odds with wider society to do so.

Caveat, while the Mail is best selling it is by no means bought by the majority of the nations people. The views and sensibilities it appeals to are not necessarily the actual views of the majority of the country, but clearly only an attempt to be so.

 

Amazing how 'who I am' keeps shooting about according to how you perceive your zero information about my background. I'm not an intellectual. I just know how to compose an argument. That isn't a shocking outcome mind you. A lot of folk are capable of doing that. There will be a lot of Brexiteers, for example, that find your 'the remainers are traitors' guff particularly poor form.

This is a ridiculous comment. Crikey, even a Tory created commission recognises the problem: "Britain has a deep social mobility problem which is getting worse for an entire generation of young people"

Its a shame you haven't bothered to ensure that evidence supports your position...

 

Your words define you to me.
I know enough to have formed opinion.

If you feel yourself unfairly described you are welcome to correct me. A simple denial offers me no more to go on than I already have, so expect no altering of my opinion from it.
Feel free to elucidate. Your unwillingness to do so however only reinforces my opinion that you are unable to credibly do so.
I accept that you aspire to be working class and that your own self image is working class, but how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you is most often not one and the same thing. Sorry.

I have all the evidence I need to support my own opinion. And indeed have offered some of that evidence to you so that you might better understand how I have come to this way of thinking.
A politician trying to bribe the youth into voting for him is unlikely to override the experiences of my life that have brought me to the conclusion that I hold.
A politician, Tory or otherwise is neither young nor experienced in life outside of palaces. Just talking arse.
Not someone I expect to have much to offer. Just another person with little to no actual experience, intellectualising about things he knows nothing of.

LMAO. Quote me a study made by palace flunkies. Because they really know so much about poverty. And indeed I fully expect that 90% of them are themselves examples of very high social mobility. Having not started life as members of the ruling class themselves.
With a few notable exceptions like the Lords, the Benn's and the Kinnocks and that Tory guy who is related to Churchill, that is.

 

So your own bias determines who I am? Well isn't that spiffing!

Present one piece of research that shows Britain is characterised by high levels of social mobility. Good luck.

 

Please refer to my previous response to the same question.

If you have something more to add, please do. Otherwise expect the same response to the same question, as a general rule.

 

You dodge without any skill dear boy. I predict you will offer no evidence for your claim. Wonder why?

 

My evidence has been offered. Your question has been responded to by me head on. You are free to still ignore it if you don't like still don't like it.

Or you can keep asking the same question again and again if you prefer I suppose, each to his own.

 

More dodge. Presenting evidence is easy. Even an oik like me can achieve it without fuss. Give author(s), date, title, journal (if appropriate). A simple reference. You don't have to stick to Harvard mind you. I don't mind a bit of flexibility.

I predict you will not give any reference.

 

Evidence already presented.

Evidence that will satisfy you? Your problem.
I have presented you with the evidence that has satisfied me. That is all.

 

Twice tried and twice ignored. You cannot provide one reference. You cannot refer to one empirical study of social mobility that agrees with your stance. You just have a keyboard, nothing more. I predict that you will abuse it again to type dodge that says naff all.

 

Please page up for my response.

I have yet to see you produce any study, and no such study has even the remotest possibility of being "empirical" since poverty is by it's very nature a subjective appraisal.
In short your studies are bollocks.
And your reliance on bollocks and other peoples "studies" to reinforce your own opinion to yourself, gives you away as a person wholly disconnected from the actual issue.

A student.
Nothing more.

When you have experiences to share, your opinion will be more persuasive to me. Until then, it's still just children's talk. Privileged children.
Oh what hard life you have lead. Oh how society has crippled you.
How I weep for the injustices you have had to face in life.

 

You have presented nothing.

I have to produce a study because you can't? Golly! Here's one: Corak (2006, Do poor children become poor adults?, Lessons for public policy from a cross country comparison of generational earnings mobility):

"The United Kingdom, the United States, and to a slightly lesser extent France, are the least mobile countries with 40 to 50% of the earnings advantage high income young adults have over their low income counterparts being associated with the fact that they were the children of higher earning parents."

An ignorant comment. Easy to avoid subjective appraisal with the use of cohort data.

I've gone from intellectual to student? I'm so sad! The truth is bland: you can't compose a valid argument.

 

My thanks to Baff and Reiver for trashing my thread. If you want to trash any more of them just feel free to!

 

Sorry Cerb.

It's very easy to avoid your subject.
The ease with which I avoid it, gives clear indication of the importance I place on it.


I have presented my reasoning for my this avoidance to you in detail and also my reasons for disagreeing with it and real life examples of the evidence from my own studies, conducted in the school of life, that lead me to dispute your own conclusions. That it does not satisfy you is your problem.

I do not seek to argue with you. Better ways to pass my time than arguing meaningless bollocks

The idea that USA UK and France are the most socially unmobile societies on earth is so ludicrous as to make me ridicule you openly. Take yourself seriously if you will.

 

Look at the difference in behaviour. I refer to the evidence, confirming Britain's relative immobility. You respond with grunt.

The truth of right wing Brexit is straightforward: the plebs bought the tosh about immigration; the leaders saw it as a means to profiteer more at the expense of the people. Ultimately, unless Corbyn gains power, you can expect even greater inequalities and deteriorating immobility. That of course would be woeful, given our pre-Brexit position of ineptness.

 

So only £50b for getting out? Well considering word was $100billion, £50billion seems a mere trifle by comparison. Let's do it! (I'll bet they're all laughing their heads off at the stupid Rosbifs!).

Oh the humiliation, the shame! A once-great nation reduced to a banana state in only 2 decades.

 

No government in this country has democratic mandate to make deals with the EU.
One way or another, they'll work it out.

I've yet to be convinced about democracy. It seems more of an ideal than a reality.
I offer only this, consensual rule, or no rule at all.

For myself this is a watershed moment in British politics. Allegiance must be shown in order for it to be reciprocated.
Actions have consequences.

The English Beef.

 

.....It's a bit like having to buy back your stolen goods from the thief that nicked them.

 

It's also a psychological ploy used by the train companies and the utility outfits - they put out the word that the percentage increase is going to be, for instance, inflation plus 10%, then when they reduce it to what they really wanted in the first place, inflation plus 7%, their customers are relieved because A, it isn't as much as they thought it was going to be, and B, that the increase is quite reasonable by comparison.

 

We are being "sold" that 50 billion buys us a trade deal by our politicians.
The EU however is not negotiating for a trade deal at all. It is negotiating only for the pensions of it's employee's.
Any EU trade deal will require further payment.

Usual EU crap. Usual Westminster crap.

 

God it gets more humiliating by the day. We've decided to leave and there's nothing any of the other member state can do about it - NOTHING! So why are we dancing to their tune, and being on the defensive all the time? Who the hell do we think they are, our masters?? I've never felt ashamed to be English before, but I sure do now.