Canada's amazing health care system is not so amazing after all.

it's also an illusion, the US has "board eligible and board certified" designations for it's specialists, Canada only allows certified MDs to practice in a specialty, "board eligible" MDs have never passed their exams and can practice in the US, in Canada they can not...as my specialist MD advised me "if you need an emergency procedure in the US make sure your specialist MD is "certified" before they operate on you"...

and Canada has very strict and rigid procedure for allowing foreign MDs to practice here, applicants must pass all the stages a canadian must go through before then can practice, there is no going to a Caribbean University and picking up a MD degree and then starting practice in Canada...I don't know how strict the US certification is for foreign MDs but if it's comparable to "board eligible" situation I suspect it isn't as thorough...many foreign MDs coming to north america are really 2nd and 3rd rate, a lot are the equivalent of our 3rd year med students and often not even that...

statistically Canadians live longer healthier lives than Americans, average lifespan is ultimately and definitively the final measure of healthcare...

 

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

Yeah, but we have Louisiana..

 

This is a good point. No one in America is denied needed professional medical services. I would add that most 'poor' Americans get SSI, etc. for one reason or the other where the tax payers pick up the tab for their medical bills. It was always meant to be a helping hand however, now we have generations of families on welfare most of whom are able bodied.

I have no problem with providing for the truly needy, disabled, handicapped American citizens. The operative word is 'truly needy' which has expanded over the past few decades to include what would have formerly been described as the 'able bodied' and what would have been formerly described as 'illegal aliens.'

 

and we have Nunavut, it all averages out...

 

Good point.

 

If you're in the hospital dying, how are you able bodied? It doesn't matter if you were handicapped before you went in. The handicapped can work and make plenty of money, my former company had a senior VP in a wheelchair. He makes more money than you and I combined I bet. What you mean to say is the poor, we should provide for the poor, and we will save their lives, but at a huge cost.

 

Canada realizes that their system is not perfect; they work to fine tune it every year. For as good or bad as it is, everyone has medical insurance. Not every doctors visit requires medication either. For those in America who have no insurance, i'm sure they'd take the Canadian system over having no insurance.

 

I know EXACTLY how good (or not so good!) we have it in America.
I've LIVED (not just visited) in Belgium, England, France and visited extensively (for 3 or more months) Italy, Portugal and Australia.

ANY ONE of those country has a better and MUCH cheaper system than we have in America.

I would recommend that everyone who has any doubt, but is TRULY interested, watch Fareed Zakaria GPS on health care. It was first aired about two months ago, but has been aired several times since then, including this last Sunday.

It compares several countries (including Canada, Taiwan, England, Switzerland, and obviously the US) and shows different systems of health care, ALL OF WHICH are superior to the US "lack" of system.

I believe it is time for people who have never lived anywhere but in the USA and have been brainwashed to believe that anything that doesn't exist in the US is "inferior" to WAKE UP and smell the roses.

 

I never mentioned anything about dying folks in the hospital, I was relating the fact that we have generations of families in welfare of whom a significant portion are actually able-bodied.

What does that have to do with anything I posted?

If that guy was in a wheelchair, that means his body can't sustain itself in some manner as most folks and he is more dependent on others even though he makes a wad of dough. What would you rather have? Lots of money or knowing you have to live your life in a wheelchair? Seems you lack compassion for others.

'Provide for the poor' is nothing but a catch-all meaningless phrase used by Socialists to create an under-class that they can keep marginally sustained but always needing government help. In that way, the so-called 'poor' can be rallied into political Socialist voting blocks.

The BEST way to 'provide for the poor' is for the government to stop levying Draconian taxation, stop Draconian so-called 'environmental' regulations on legitimate manufacturing industries, start opening up oil reserves here in the U.S. and stop the EPA from blocking the building of more refineries. That's just a start but would have the effect of stimulating business growth which would create a need for more employees.

Government is the problem, not the solution. The Government has already almost destroyed our Health Care system, now it is going to 'finish the job.'

 

Bad point...."board eligible" means that the MD has served a full residency which is on-the-job- training. All that MD lacks is to take a very expensive exam to get 'certified.' Canada probably needs the exam $$$$ so they require it. An un-certified specialist is no better or worse than a 'certified' one.

 

Well...'America' isn't forcing you to stay so, I guess you must like it here. I don't think one can compare the U.S. 'health-care' system with other countries. The U.S. is not, and has never been, a truly Socialist nation although, segments of it are being and have been threatened over the decades with more intrusive government regulations and controls. The health care segment being one of them mainly because of creeping government control and the political ramifications that come with it.

Socialist societies with government health care don't allow folks to fully decide on their own what kinds of treatments they need. It's not in government's best interest to provide life-extending care, services to the elderly. Lots of younger folks seem to forget that someday, they will be old. In America, the elderly but still sentient, can decide on their own what kind of care they want. In a Socialist country, the decision is made for you and, if you can no longer contribute to the 'collective' there is no reason for government to waste time and money on you when you fall off the treatment chart.

 

in what world does that make sense?...an MD doesn't need to take exams verify he's qualified? exam fees are well within any MDs financial means, if what you say were true no american specialist would bother with certification but they do because it verifies their qualifications...

plumbers, electricians, auto technicians, emt's, fireman, police, pilots, engineers, nearly every job requires certification/exams but MD's don't require it because the requirements for their profession aren't as critical in your logic...wowzer, now that's twisted logic...

 

Picked this up in one of those Michael Moore films so take this with a grain of salt, but it did mention that it is pretty common for Canadians to buy visitor's insurance when they visit the US.

(Link to insurance company removed by Admin. Requested by company.)

 

nothing is perfect and everything is constantly fine tuned...unfortunately politicians have to get involved periodically and mess things up...Canada's biggest problems are deliberate underfunding of healthcare by some governments (the electorate complaining about taxes then expecting improvements without raising taxes doesn't help matters) and underfunding of the education system, it costs money and lots of it to train MDs and the population is growing faster than the educational system can produce MDs...still we do alright in spite of that but we can do much much better...

 

I would think that was just common sense and assumed everyone does...I've had extra out of country medical insurance every time I have left the country over the last 45yrs...

 

I think most Canadians feel as you've mentioned. Most of my friends who live in Canada say they like the system and the are able to get rudimentary care without any issues.

We American's tend to resist change, that coupled with lobbyists giving horror stories about socialized medicine based on mostly isolated incidents, only cement the fear of change in many Americans. Like you, its just my two cents.

 

An MD is already licensed to practice medicine (Medical Doctor). It's the specialization that requires residency and a test. The residency is where the real specialty education takes place. The test is for a piece of paper. If an MD decides not to take the test the market will decide how much business he gets.

It's just like you hiring a 'handy man' who is unlicensed. He'll be much cheaper but, you (as a consumer) are taking a chance. The handy-man may indeed be better and cheaper than a licensed contractor or may not. The government has no business telling anyone who to hire and who not to hire.

 

In the other hand, if YOU do not like the new affordable health care act, and the way it will continue to develop in the next few years, YOU can choose to leave the country!

You are so (*)(*)(*)(*) wrong about health care in social democracies, and your comments demonstrate your ignorance. You are just spreading propaganda and nothing more.

My brother in law recently had a surgery to clear his carotid artery. He also had cataract removed in both eyes. He is 87 years old. That was in Belgium.

Your accusations about other countries are offensive as much as they are stupid.
By the way, most elderlies come to a point when they CAN'T decide what treatment they would like to pursue, and whether or not such treatment would be a life saving, or. . .more likely, would only prolong the dying process.

This is the reason why it is so important that every person over the age of 60 be provided with a counseling session so that they can be given options and understand everything there is to know about a living will and advance directives.
There is NO REASON to force a person who has lost the quality of life, and is no more than an empty shell to be subjected to heroic measures that are often painful and take away the dignity of the person. . .UNLESS that person has clearly, and at a time when he/she was clear of mind stated that he/she wanted to prolong. the slow death through those heroic measures, instead of receiving solely paliative care in a manner that is kind, respectful, and provide a dignified, gentle and NATURAL passage

 

a desperate argument attempting to defend a ridiculous previous post...hey! why even bother taking medical exams let med students apprentice with MDs and let them practice without exams, let's do the same with pilots and bridge engineers... the difference in knowledge required between a MD and a specialist is as great if not greater than a med student and a MD, not to test and accept an honor system is ludicrous...

 

I didn't say you should leave the country. Seems to me you are unhappy here...I was just saying that no one is forcing you to stay.

Folks flock to the U.S. when they need really good medical attention.

Belgium's HC system faces challenges as its population ages. Your bro-in-law is lucky he is already 85 because, in the near future, government will have a hard time meeting HC government mandates.

So are yours.

If you actually read my post and could comprehend what I wrote, you'd realize that my point is that government has no place in making such decisions.

It is interesting to me that Socialists think THEIR opinion on what other folks 'need' is somehow better than the individual and the individual's family.

'Quality of Life' is nothing more than a vague reference and subject to political manipulation in a government-run HC system. I find it highly immoral to coerce an elderly person to take pain killers instead of being able to access curative procedures.

Government has no place in the medical field.

 

Where did I advocate that medical students shouldn't take exams? We were discussing certification of medical SPECIALISTS and my point is that one should be free to see either a 'certified' or 'non-certified' specialist. Why do Socialists always want to mandate THEIR notion of medical care on everyone else?

 

Have your Canadian friends lived in the U.S. for any real length of time? And you said a key phrase "rudimentary care"... but ask them about the waiting period to see specialist. People in BC can wait months, in Boise I never waited more than 3 days.

People resist change and Americans certainly have no monopoly on it. And waiting times to see a specialist, high charges to fill out paperwork, and gaps in the coverage system are far from isolated here in BC.

 

And for those in BC who suffer while waiting months to see a specialist, I bet they would prefer the American system over the BC system.

 

It is smart for anyone to have visitors insurance when leaving the Country. I have it right now in BC.