Convert a Conservative to Liberalism! Tell us what you like about being a liberal!

What can I say? Poverty hurts, and many people have a backlog of items they need to get.

Can we help it if the business people don't want to talk to us about their problems? We're more than happy to listen. The boycott is on their heads.

Hey in light of recent events in the US Congress, don't talk to me about fiscal responsibility. My side wants to pay the bills...

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Hey, I was asked for my opinion, and I gave my honest opinion which is more than your side can do, apparently. How about you try and sell me on Conservatism?

 

We were a liberal years ago, from our earliest political memory, up to about age 40. So it is going to be difficult to convince us to revert to ways we rejected after we grew up, gained some experience, maturity and insight, and learned what the real world is about. (And quit working for the gov't....)

Can't go back.

 

Did you just say your side wants to pay the bills? Uh no. Your side wants to raise the debt ceiling so that they can spend more money on filling those 20 shopping cart for lazy POS system abusers that Obama is letting milk the system in exchange for their votes. If you lefties truly wanted to help poor people you should be kicking these lazy m effers in the butt along with the rest of us. That way the money Obama is letting them blow can be used to help the truly in need. Fact is you lefties want these people on assistance even when they don't need it because you care more about advancing your socialist ideology rather than helping people or the country.
If you are sticking up for these people filling 20 shopping carts then you are part of the problem and definitely NOT the solution.

 

As opposed to being an intolerant, narrow minded, hypocritical, angry, racist, 1% apologist, brain dead, propaganda blinded conservative? Ewwww. Easy choice for me.

 

Indeed. And if I wasn't a liberal, listening to the hateful bile and selfish, uncaring rhetoric spouted by those on the right would certainly convince me to become one.

 

I used to think of myself as a moderate conservative. I find myself more and more in the liberal column now. Funny thing is, my views didn't change all that much. The right has just turned so hard right.

 

No, he just doesn't reduce life to money the way you do. It isn't always about I, me, mine.

 

It is not my intention to criticize what anyone says in this thread. I started it because I am genuinely curious to know what Liberals LIKE about, well, being liberal! That said, you may have missed what I said, plainly, when I put it straight up that I'm a "rock-ribbed economic Conservative", not a liberal... especially not where anything involving money is concerned! Why are you taking me to task for being a Liberal...?

We all probably have "shades of gray", including a Con like me. I voted for legalization of marijuana in Colorado (which passed), I believe that abortion is a woman's individual choice to make, and I truly believe that, if we MUST have socialized medicine in the United States, it should be single-payer in structure -- not "Obamacare" as it appears to be. But enough about my Leftist leanings....

I want to know what Liberals like about the liberal political philosophy! There must be more merit to it than I realize, because .liberal Democrats were the big winners in 2006, 2008, and 2012. The only recent election we Conservatives won even half of was when we got a majority in the House in 2010, which was NOT enough to really do anything, obviously.

I had hoped you could do better than that, Joe. If your "enlightenment" really is "enlightenment", can it be so very, very hard to share with others...? I could rave for paragraphs telling you what I like about being an economic Conservative, because, IMHO, it is a wonderful, beneficial, rewarding political philosopy. And, you could disagree, of course. But remember, it is NOT my purpose in this thread to snipe at anyone for expressing what they like about being a liberal person... and yet you can't think of anything to recommend your viewpoint? That is sad....

 

Reading people here, Obama is the most conservative president since Reagan. I don't know why you're not celebrating conservatism as long as he's WINNING!

 

I like knowing what is actually happening.
I'd feel stupid if I thought that social security was going to bankrupt the country, or that global warming was a plot to get more funding for climate research, or that the shutdown was going to end ObamaCare.

I enjoy living in a world where my system of beliefs actually predicts what happens....

 

I really don't blame you people for gloating. I share your sentiment. Critical mass has been reached and liberalism has won. No president should've been re-elected with his record and running on such a liberal platform. It meant a lot.

Now the only saving grace for conservatism is the inevitable failure of liberalism. The spending. It's crazy. It'll catch up. It's not a Democrat problem. It's a Republican and Democrat problem. When the GOP had six years of power, they gave us larger government and more debt. Hence the Tea Party.

I got news for you. The Tea Party isn't going away once our black president is out of office. As if some of our candidates in GOP primaries weren't enough to convince you. As if Ted Cruz wasn't enough. We don't care what the GOP wants anymore. They've failed us, too!

 

I like Liberals because they are so easy ,and that Bambie look as if Rabbits caught in the headlights, is cool, they express the decay of US imperialism ,Morally ,Politically and ideologically the most, EG Assassin President Obama.

They Attempt to make things up as they go ,having thought Farts as they go ,EG Obama.

Close down the Government one day ,threaten the Global economy the next ,Blackmailers and Scared Neurotics ,that's what I love about American Liberalism ,It gave us Obama ,thus shattering Illusions in the Government of US Imperialism ,with a smiley face!

 

Bwhahahahhahah!!!! BWAHAHAHHAHAHQAHH!!!!H!H!H!H!HHwhoa HAHHAHAHAHHA. With you lefties its all about money. If its not about money then why are your hands always reaching into our pockets for more of it? What a joke. Thanks that was quite a chuckle.......Everyone......liberals arent about money, they dont reduce life to money, as long as you keep giving it to them. You are all about money.....SPENDING IT.
ROFLMFAO

 

I'm the arch-Conservative, Constitution-loving Right-winger -- and YET. I have to admit that I've heard dire warnings about how government spending was going to destroy our economy all my long life! But it never did! There are two liberal gentlemen who post here, Iriemon and akphidelt2007, who pointed that out to me, over and over, and finally it occurred to me that they were factually correct. Neither Republican nor Democrat spending-sprees have ever "destroyed the economy", and that's simply the truth....

Out-of-control spending, especially on socialist bulwarks like Obama's bloated Welfare State will always make me gag and puke -- BUT -- the spending, per se, hasn't wrecked the economy, and if the past is any guide to the future, it probably can't....

 

It's all about growth in GDP in relation to the debt. We had growth in the past. We don't have enough growth now. Why should we expect growth in the near future?

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99927343

 

I have been. For years. This has involved a fair amount of reading, to include "conservative" sources. The end result has been that I have been accused of being a COMMUNIST, SOCIALIST, SOFT-ON-CRIME, TREE-HUGGING, UN-AMERICAN, IMMORAL, ETC type. Quote their own sources to them, and you are accused of taking things out of context. Expand the contect, and you are accused of being too wordy.

The advantage (a personal one) to all the reading is that not only have I NOT changed my mind but my opinions have been strengthened. The more I have learned (about economics, business, history, law, religion) the more I have come to see that much of what passes these days for "conservatism" is just so much methane. Health permitting (and if the bloody computer doesn't crash again) I hope to create another series of letters (with quotes from authorities ranging from Aristotle to the Bible to yesterday's newspaper) backing this up. I have no expectation of changing the minds of today's pseudo-conservatives. I am writing for the independents and for the Liberals, to give the one information to counteract the pseudo-conservative BS and the other ammunition (including, for example, from Hayek) to toss back at the noise machine.

I don't believe in simple answers to complicated situations, so any detailed response to this post would be more a sound bite than an answer.

 

Although I have split ballots since the Nixon administration, around here I'm considered liberal. Apparently being liberal is a simple matter of not being a hard right conservative. So I will attempt to explain why I simply refuse to support the right wing agenda.

I have spent my adult life, both professionally and privately being a critical thinker. I was trained to question everything and to come to my own conclusions while searching for errors, poor assumptions, or excessive risk. When it comes political policy, the current conservative movement asks you to believe and have faith in their basic tenets and build your entire political program consistent with their assumption. When I look at their policies the end results are not what I consider desirable. Tracking back to the basic tenets they represent, I find no convincing evidence that these assumptions are supportable. Once I have questioned the basics, the whole pyramid falls apart. So it all boils down to I don't believe.

Belief seems to be the most basic of all conservative values. When ever I hear a speech from a conservative, they always seem to say, "I / We Believe ...." They consistently refuse to tell you why they believe that, just a statement of fact that they do believe. One of the things that this forum displays every day is that these conservatives are very sincere and do feel very strongly about their beliefs, much to their credit. But if you do not believe the same as they do, the world looks like a very different place, the problems are different as are the priorities so it is very difficult to find any common ground to even start the conversation, much less agree to an outcome.

So being a non-conservative, a liberal if you please, is hard and rewarding. You give up simple stock answers, you are left out in cold to figure it out on your own. It is scary and you always double check yourself to make sure your discovered facts are true and your not simply building a straw man. Sometimes you miss and have to back up admitting you made a mistake. But the upside is complete freedom to think for yourself. That self confidence and knowing not only what policy you like but why you like it. You are free to evaluate both conservative and liberal ideas, find their strengths and weaknesses, and decide which to adopt or to support another choice all together. It is a true intellectual freedom that is well worth the time and trouble.

 

I used to think of myself as a moderate conservative. I still do even though all the liberals think that people like me are almost like nazis. Funny thing is my views didn't change all that much either. The Left has just turned so far into being radical, America hating socialists. As an example, I never have been a racist in my life, but because I can't stand anything about Obama, the liberals call me a "racist". Myself and a lot of others like me don't even care anymore whether we are unjustly called racists. If you have to love Obama in order not to be called a racist, then fine, I'll be your "racist". Who (*)(*)(*)(*)ing cares what these people think?

 

I did say "lukewarm". It's a mild version.If social democracy is the compromise between liberalism and socialism, then what you have in the US is a compromise between liberalism and social democracy.

They're technically socialist ideas, but watered down.

You could call it left liberalism I suppose.

 

ANY "knowledge" gleamed from Iriemon and akphidelt2007 should be taken with heaps of salt. I once backed the latter into a corner about spending, pointing out that for his spending scheme to work the American people would have to be taxed more and more and more, and he didn't respond, likely because admitting that is true would show he doesn't care about the wealth of individual citizens, only about maintaining the vote-buying programs we call "social welfare" and the "military".

 

I've been in a series of mostly good-spirited discussions and debates with Iriemon and Akphidelt 2007 for a long time. We all "nibble around the edges" of arguments, using our own subjective viewpoints and biases, but I have to give them both credit for being fact-based and logical. Actually, sometimes they disagree (profoundly) with each other, even though both gentlemen have liberal viewpoints.

Again, my "confession" about spending is a simple one, and it is one that has resonated in complete truth all my long life: dire warnings about increased levels of government spending and debt have been shouted from the rooftops at least as long as I've been alive, and yet NO financial catastrophe has ever occurred because of it.

In the last 100 years, this country has sustained one "great depression", one "great recession" (sort of), and a number of smaller economic hiccups, jolts, and other "crises". To my knowledge, every single one of these events was caused by reckless, irresponsible stock market gamblers, investment bankers, corporate fraud artists, and other criminals. But none of these were caused by government spending! Please tell me if I'm wrong about that, but I don't believe I am.

I disapprove of nearly everything done in the economy by both the Idiot Bush and Idiot Obama regimes, as Iriemon and Akphidelt2007 would tell you. I despise and detest all the write-offs, loopholes, tax shelters, exclusions, and exemptions in the U. S. Tax Code, and feel that the entire contemptible pile of **** should be thrown out and completely re-written so that everyone pays the same rate of tax, with no "special benefits" given to one group of taxpayers over that of another. Fundamental unfairness in taxation is a disease that weakens and sickens any society that allows it, and, just look at where we are today -- a combination of both Conservative and Liberal administrations, their policies, and their willingness to allow completely unfair tax policies -- for decades!

So, when I ask liberals to share with us what they like about Liberalism and liberal political philosophies, I don't expect them to reveal some secret path of utopian perfection. I simply want to know what they think recommends Liberalism... because I already know what I believe the negative, "dark side" of Liberalism is, and I want to refresh my understanding of what a liberal's viewpoint actually is....

 

The Great Depression was caused by a decrease in the money supply - there literally was not enough currency to represent the value of everything in the economy. While the stock market crash was the fault of investors, it did not have to become a depression. All the Fed had to do was give the depositors their money when the banks failed and everyone would have kept their money instead of becoming penniless overnight. But they didn't, in part due to the fact that they were on the gold standard and their gold reserves wouldn't allow for currency to me bade. Basically, the stock market created a bunch of hypothetical money, but there was no limit on how much even though theoretically the gold reserves should have dictated a currency limit. As such, when the banks failed, the Fed didn't have money to compensate depositors with because it had created the maximum amount of currency ti was allowed. Thus why, if you insist on having a stock market, you cannot have a gold standard. A lot of monetarists bash the Fed for not making more money - it's true, in the sense that if they could predict what people could do with the stock market they would have realized that they could not limit how much they could produce or bank failures would make a lot of people broke. At the time though, no one thought far into the future.

The Great Recession was the fault of everybody, really. The Government had Fannie and Freddie push an "affordable housing" agenda that involved giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford them, and everyone else then went "hey, the feds are doing it, we can too!" and followed suit. But even with that stupid program, if the guys on the stock market hadn't been so stupid as to gamble with such unstable things, they would not have tanked the market.

People aren't perfect is the moral of this story. But the proposals to make us "perfect" and prevent problems like this are in themselves problems. Just like living in a country with freedom of thought increases your chances of getting beat up by a racist party because they're allowed to exist until they hurt someone, if you want to reap the benefits of capitalism you must accept that it is run by people, and people (*)(*)(*)(*) up sometimes. Progressives can't accept that.

 

Like... Obama ?

As you all call out... well... Obama ?

Oh that's right, you won't... you guys won't blame him for anything.

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Well, like he said.. he wants laws to stay out of the bedroom.

 

Correct, he and many other liberals aren't concerned with the fiscal responsibility you are debating against.

Current administration being a great example of that.