COP: ‘I’m Going to Grab Your Baby, and Don’t Resist’

No, I'd get them as they went through the door, and keep the baby hidden away. BTW, if they're pointing a gun at a baby, it's pretty clear that they are the bad guys, and submission is a bad, probably fatal, mistake.

 

Thank you for a dispassionate observation of the circumstances, it contrasts with the hysterical posts here.

 

Is as usually the case....some folks just want to type. Reading, researching, even THINKING is optional.

 

Yea, in the mean time the baby is being held captive, the parents are going through hell....but we'll be waiting with baited breath to hear CPS tell their side of the story....which they seem reluctant to tell....even after TWO WEEKS!.

 

It's California. If the legislature has it's way, the thugs will never have to worry about anyone attempting to stop them from trespassing. That's the whole point of gun control.

 

Don't you all watch MSNBC and Melissa Harris-Perry? Kids don't belong to their parents. Obviously a cop, as an agent of the state, has a right to snatch a baby from its parents.

 

Better to be killed than subjugated by tyrants. If your going to check out, take some of the pigs with you.

 

Terrible as that may be, sometimes you have to man up and fight. Fight right then and there with no quarter given or expected.
That would not have happened to an armed man with enough training to do the job.

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Yea, the same medical professionals they want deciding if you can own a gun or not. Vicious circle right there.

 

Two massive data systems ...personal health care records and federal background checks...invented or covert federal authority to access them at will.... and an agenda....

what could go wrong?!?

 

We have not heard ANY side of the story except the parents' side.

As usual in these cases, CPS can NOT publicly discuss the case!

The hospitals can NOT publicly discuss the case.

The doctors can NOT publicly discuss the case

All we have heard is the parents, parents who are willing to pull an infant with a serious heart condition and who is ill out of a cardiac ICU, telling us what THEY want us to hear.

Parents who seem to be experienced enough with the CPS that they thought ahead to set up a camera at home to make a video after the police had told them ""Fine, go home".

Something stinks about their pathetic little story of "innocent victimization by the government meanies" to take their story at face value.

But because of privacy laws, that is all we are going to hear for quite some time, which then irrational Righties claims means CPS is "guilty". The same RIghties who claim the parents should machine gun the CPS case workers and the police when they knock on the door as the "best route" to care for these people's sick baby..

 

What if the parents were telling the truth?
What then?

 

I am not going to question your statement on face value. I will say that if you go into court and claim that an entry without a warrent was made due to a "legitimate concern" or a "legitimate belief" it would be ruled illegal. What is required is Probable Cause. In the situation that you gave, depending on what the woman was screaming, you had probable cause. But the situation in California was completely different. All the parents did was seek a second opinion for their childs condition. First of all Child Protective Services were required to verify the condition of the child prior to taking the child. The Parents had paperwork from another hospital stating that it was alright for the parents to take the child home. If CPS or the police had bother to do their jobs then this situation would not have existed. I call upon CPS to fire the CPS officer, and retrain the police officers involve in the raid.

I also believe that someone should check what Sutter Memorial Hospital actually reported. I think it is possible that they filed a false report. Ask yourself, why would the hospital be against seeking a second opinion? Is it possible that the surgery was not necessarily needed? Or that they were concerned that another Hospital would be preforming the surgery cutting them out of the money?

 

Compared to the baby being dead or seriously injured due to lack of medical care?

Fiddlerdave has already explained, in detail, exactly what CPS side is. And they are completely justified in acting in that manner.

In order for the parents side to have merit, you'll need to provide something from a reputible source as to whether or not:

- The new doctor was given the same information as the other hospital.

- Had examined the baby to determine it wasn't in need of medical treatment as the other hospital was giving her.

- Third party medical professional established that the other hospital was wrong and the child did not need immediate treatment.

Other than the parents word. Because as much as you want to cry evil medical conspiracy, it's currently official government policy to protect children VS the parents word. And even if you are able to provide evidence that the parents were in the right, the only organisation at fault will be the hospital who would've had to blatantly lie to police and Child Protective Services for absolutely no damn reason.

 

Always get a second opinion before surgery. That is SOP and if the first doc does not want you to, leave. No question the parents were in the right for leaving.

 

You're allowed to get a second opinion. Request one from another hospital if you must. But you're NOT allowed to just take your child out of cardiac ICU just because you feel like it.

That's a perfectly justified reason for CPS to take your child into protective care. The only way it's not going to be is if the hospitals diagnosis was completely irrelevant, misdiagnosed or wrong.

Which you need to prove by having a reliable, verifiable source show whether or not:

- The new doctor was given the same information as the other hospital.

- Had examined the baby to determine it wasn't in need of medical treatment as the other hospital was giving her.

- Or a third party medical professional established that the other hospital was wrong and the child did not need immediate treatment.

Because the parents word means about as much as any idiot who thinks they can just take their child out of a cardiac ICU on a whim. Especially when the entire claim of CPS or the hospital acting wrongly is that the hospital lied to CPS for absolutely no reason.

 

BS, if I think a doctor is going to force a heart surgery on my child that I am not convinced they need. Go ahead, stand in my way as I exit your hospital with my child. I dare ya.
Parents say no and thats it, it means NO.
Had the doctors been worthy of the name, he would have allowed another qualified doctor of the same dicipline to examine the child and give thier report to the family.
But no, the first doc needed to make a Mercedes payment or golf club membership payment. So he tried to force them into leaving the child there for what may be an unnesseccary surgery.

 

So a 2nd opinion from another doctor is worse than an unnecessary heart surgery?

None of the news reports mention the hospital giving this kid the surgery, now have they? If they do, it will be because they charge for the work, not because they cared about the life of the child.

This whole situation is ridiculous. Any cop that went in that house could tell that there was no "Severe Neglect". This is a shameful invasion of privacy and after it all said and done... well, let's just say they won't have to worry about how to pay for the kids education.

 

Under Obama-care all child health decisions will be made by people like the CPS people who did this.

 

No it isn't. People that think gun control serves no purpose are nothing more than pawns of the Gun Manufacturers.

Besides, there were no guns involved here. I am just saying that I think there are times when you would be justified in defending yourself from a police officer.

The law doesn't allow this. Citizens are held to a higher standard of conduct and are subject to additional punishment when they commit a crime against a cop. However, police are NOT held to a higher standard of conduct and are very often "Above the law" in the district where they serve.

 

That is fairly ridiculous. This was a bad decision made by an idiot doctor.

You can't blame everything on Obama, no matter how hard you try. Don't get me wrong, all politicians are crooked, and Obama is certainly no better. But he is no worse, either.

 

Actually that is the bull(*)(*)(*)(*). NOBODY is forcing heart surgery on anyone, let alone this child.

The issue was that she was in (*)(*)(*)(*)ing INTENSIVE CARE. You can't just pull a child out of a cardiac ICU. That's directly putting the childs life at risk. Which, strangely enough, a parent isn't allowed to do.

Strangely enough a parent can't just say "no" to intensive care. In fact the CPS exists almost specifically to stop the abuse of children in such situations by ignorant parents who think their child is their property and they can put its life in danger whenever they want.

Are you just going to spout nonsensical things now and pretend that relates to my post?

A doctors second opinion does matter, which is why they are free to get one. They just can't remove the child from ICU without permission to do so. And a doctors second opinion only matters if he's trained and was given the same information the hospital recieved to determine whether or not the child should be in ICU.

So you are just going to spout nonsensical comments and pretend you have an argument. Sorry, you still don't.

Nobody has said the child recieved surgery. Try again?

Ah yes, already on a conspiracy of medical doctors wanting money. Which is great and all but the parents need to approve the procedure. And they are required to perform it regardless of whether or not the parents can or will pay if the child needs it. Shutting that idiocy down. Try again?

I suggest you read the article. The child was removed from a cardiac ICU without permission. The severe neglect comes from removing a child from a cardiac ICU because they felt like it. You understand that neglect doesn't need to have been happening the moment the officer opened the door for it to exist or him to exercise his duty in removing the child, right?

Unless the parents can prove what I mentioned above, they won't be getting a cent. Removing a child from ICU without permission is grounds for CPS to step in.

CPS was justifiably doing their job. Leaving on the hospital as this mysterious lying organisation that likes to have children taken away for (*)(*)(*)(*)s and giggles.

Or, much more likely, the parents did something incredibly stupid and dangerous towards their child then (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es when the law stepped in.

Like I said, show evidence for what was mentioned above. Otherwise it's offical government policy versus the words of parents who didn't care about the life of their child.

 

Calm down, take a breath and listen. Its seems the surgery was not life and death right then and there. Seems by the second opinion that hold water.
So taking the child out of ICU from doctors will not release said child seems reasonable enough to me.
Unless you are also of the opinion that our children are not really ours and the state can call the shots for them.

 

Sounds to me like a doctor got in a hissy fit that he wasnt gonna be able to charge thousands upon thousands to do a surgery that wasnt necessary, called CPS and claimed the child was in danger and being neglected treatment.

 

Yep, I concur.

 

If it makes you feel better to believe that, it's your own limitation and your own limited imagination.I have my own principles which have nothing to do with gun manufacturers.

You yourself mentioned "opening fire" on the invaders.

And yes, there were guns involved here. There were guns possessed and used as a threat by agents of the state. AFAIK, the private citizens did not have the means to defend themselves against kidnapping.

That's what you get from a government that you empower to create criminals of peaceful people, which is what gun control does.