Creationists are doing the Devil's Work

Yes, we can tinker as well.

 

I don't mean to imply that mankind can comprehend all that is. In fact, I think that faith is a necessary ingredient in a relationship with an all knowing being. At some point, we are going to be clueless and need to rely on his all knowing wisdom. Faith is a necessary ingredient for finite to relate to the infinite.

 

Tinker (manipulate that which is already present), but you cannot 'create' as spoken of in Genesis.

 

To that, I will give you a big AMEN!

 

Tinker like animal husbandry which dates back thousands of years?

 

Yes! Like animal husbandry (manipulate that which is already preexisting). Create??? NOT !!! Without the preexisting, man cannot do more,, because man would have nothing to work with (manipulate).

 

Or like cultivating chick peas 10,000 years ago.

 

It reminds me of a joke I heard.

A group of scientists decided to challenge God to a contest after finally managing to create a life form of their own after decades of research. They proudly approached his throne and told everyone in detail how they had created this new life form. To disavow any doubt, they decided to create a life form right in front of him. First they unloaded a box full of amino acids and a myriad of chemicals and various machines to coax the lifeless matter into the land of the living. They had everything ready.......except.......they forgot to bring some of the dust of the earth that the Almighty used to create man. Blushing with embarrassment the scientist humbly asked if God could loan them some dirt. The reply? God simply said, "Make your own dirt".

 

Most excellent.. ROFLMBO... good one.

 

You want to get into a discussion as to who can be called a "Doctor of the Church"?

Freeware. I accept your correction. But your silly pedantry - largely characterized by its longwinded superciliousness - has threatened to derail a thread you had said looked promising.

I made a mistake with the capital letter. It looked funny when I typed it but I wrongly let it pass. Now can we move on? I suspect that you have the intelligence to make more meaningful contributions to this discussion.

 

Are you sure of their existence 10000 years ago? Where is that number derived from? Please explain in detail and then provide objective empirical evidence that actually proves that the evidence was 'cultivated' 10000 years ago. I am at this point more interested in the number than I am about the 'chick peas'.

 

The chickpea (Cicer arietinum) (also ceci bean, garbanzo bean, chana, sanagalu Indian pea, Bengal gram) is a legume of the family Fabaceae, subfamily Faboideae. Its seeds are high in protein and it is one of the earliest cultivated vegetables; 7,500-year-old remains have been found in the Middle East.

Vernalization response of the wild chick pea

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1513838


The wild version of chickpeas (Cicer reticulatum) is only found in parts of what is today southeastern Turkey and adjacent Syria, and it is likely that it was first domesticated there, about 10,500 years ago. Chickpeas store really well, and are high in nutritive value, and were part of the farming culture that grew out of the Neolithic of the Fertile Crescent.

(snip)

Domesticated chickpeas have been found at several archaeological sites, including Tell el-Kerkh in Syria; Cayönü (7250-6750 BC), Hacilar (ca 6700 BC), and Akarçay Tepe (7280-8700 BP) in Turkey; and Jericho (8350 BC to 7370 BC) in the West Bank.

The earliest to date is Tell el-Kerkh, in the late 10th millennium BC, and scholars suspect that since el-Kerkh is a considerable distance from the native lands of the wild chickpea, the domestication took place somewhat earlier than that.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/domestications/qt/chickpeas.htm

 

Skipping over all of the tripe because the links only reference the opinions of other people. Opinions do not qualify as evidence... else the opinions of Christians would also count as evidence.

 

Oh I have known many Christian Archeologists. They too are familiar with Carbon Dating ... Gosh.. I have even known Christian geologists, chemists, cartographers and historians.

Guess you have read about the 11,000 year old granaries found near the Dead Sea.

The History of the Ancient Near East
Electronic Compendium

ANCIENT ISRAEL IRAQ EGYPT TURKEY IRAN SYRIA
LEBANON JORDAN ARABIA CYPRUS AND BAHRAIN



Read more: http://ancientneareast.tripod.com/index.html#ixzz1gqY7T4NQ

 

Why do you insist on leaning so hard on the opinions of others? Don't you have an opinion of your own?

 

Opinions?

What is YOUR training? Have you been to ANY of these sites?

Scientists let the facts tell them.. They don't bend the facts to "belief" and unfounded "opinion".

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...near-dead-sea-11-000-yrs-old.html#post4850467

 

Yes they are opinions offered by other people.

Electronics. What is yours and how does any of that training matter. Even the electronics training I received in past years is currently being updated because some of the older theories are proving themselves inadequate. Also, that previous training that I received was also the opinions of other people.

Are you referring to the Web sites or the geographical sites mentioned therein?

What FACTS do they have with regard to numbers in relation to 'reality'? They don't have to 'bend the facts' (if indeed any exist), when all they have to do is use an arbitrary number system that is not necessarily in conformance with "reality".

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein

 

Have you been to any of the goegraphical sites?

You seem to be terribly resistant to education or in accepting even the possibility that there are educated Christians.

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/222519-evidences-recent-dating-adam.html#post4850543

 

No. Have you? If yes then prove it.

Of course there are educated Christians. How do you think it became possible for me to obtain one of those secularized degrees in Computer Electronics? Hmm... Guess that means that I am not too opposed or resistant to 'education'.

 

Oh Computer Electronics..

Yes, I have traveled all over the world to many ancient sites.

 

Yes! Computer Electronics. Can you say as much?

Then, what difference does it make? None. You came back with your own opinion? Then express your own opinion rather than expressing the opinion of others. In either case, it still amounts to OPINION.

 

I am offering you the facts based on decades of study and excavation by people trained in these sciences...

By contrast I could have an OPINION about Computer Engineering without knowing a bloody thing about it.

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/208694-guide-hunter-gatherers-levant.html

Carbon dating puts the Natufian people in the Levant and Jericho at several locations in 12,000 BC..

They lived in houses that sound like the houses built in Catal hoyuk in Turkey (DATES TO 6,300 BC.. in that they are semi subterreanean... and they buried their dead with artifacts. which indicates some reverence for life and spiritual beliefs.

Its possible these are the other gods that are referred to in Genesis.

 

And I have told you of how my many years of experience and study are now being subjected to a reassessment due to new findings. In other words, what I was taught previously is being turned inside out... the opinions I held regarding electronics is now requiring alteration.... thus proving what I had previously opined with respect to the teachings were merely opinion... based on the teachings I had received, and which are now changing.

Sure you could. Due to the new details that are being presented to the Electronics community, I would have to give equal consideration to your opinions until such time that I could physically disprove your opinion. Which only adds emphasis on the statement "science can prove nothing"... science is in a constant state of flux; ever changing (things once taught are changing or have suffered change); even the numbers once used are (by your own admission) are changing. So what really makes a difference between the opinion of one person and the opinion of another person. I have seen both physical and video graphic evidence where the home owner (not holding any degree in any science field ) have demonstrated that the old laws (in regard to electronics and some physics) are either no longer applicable or are in the process of review that MIGHT result in yet a new law to be substituted for the old law.

Carbon dating falls squarely within that realm which Einstein spoke about. What he essentially said is 'numbers work great on paper, but when applied to a practical situation, they don't work'. In electronics this is very true, and the reason that some circuitry requires the use of 'gimmick capacitors'. A small piece of open ended wire (sticking up from the circuit board attached only at one end) to change the values from what the paper specifications stated to a relatively unknown value. The reason for this modification is because the theoretical (paper specifications) did not function properly.

OK and you point?

I have no doubt that the use of the term 'gods' in Genesis 3 made reference to other people ... It could have been those people or it can still be people of this current era.

 

Have you ever seen a core sample? They tell a story that requires further investigation.