David Crockett, and his Conservative idea on "Charity"

David Crockett has been a hero to many of us in the "Boomer Generation", mostly because of his death at the Alamo. You years I have studied the character of this hero and find him admirable in more ways that one. He served terms as Congressman for the State of Tennessee, but how many know his political views or what made him tick in that area? I find that his ideas resound with many Conservatives to this day. He was a hero in more than one way. Conservatives would do well to read this:

Not Yours to Give: Davy Crockett and Welfare
Not only is taxpaid, government dictated welfare [and/or student debt forgiveness] opposite to Christian charity, it also flies directly in the face of the Constitution of the United States.
Hero of the Alamo Davy Crockett was a colonel in the Tennessee Regulars and was elected to the House of Representatives from his native state. That was before his part in the valiant defense of the famed Alamo. He served three terms as https://www.101bananas.com/library2/crockett.html
Post By @Josh Brown

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All reactions:
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I'm not sure that dying at the Alamo was such a great idea. I think Sam Houston's strategy of "run until you can win" is what freed Texas. But, I do agree that while Charity is a virtue, our charitable spending should be from our own pocket.

 

Pensions is not welfare. It is payment for services rendered. The British Army did this if you were able to serve your time in the army. The navy did this if and only if you captured an enemy vessel. The US Constitution allows this for certain officers of the government. But what was going on here was not the pension. It was a battle between Jeffersonian Democracy and Jackson Democracy. David Crocket was an adherent anti-Jackson politician but was friend of Andrew Jackson, fought with him in Florida against the Indian uprising hen. he was elected three times and lost his final time in 1835, and that's when he came to the Alamo, searching for a new life after his own district voted him out of office, he came to the Alamo, surrendered to Santa Anna, and was subsequently executed. We still have the myths in which Fess Parker and John Wayne played David Crockett in TV and in film respectively.

BTW. the actual quote is as follows: "I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week’s pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

the above quote was the idea of the time. That is no longer the case. We have pensions for members of Congress, the President, and pretty much everyone who has worked for the federal government, including the military. Are you willing to take all of that away, and I do mean everyone because you consider it charity?

 

You say the idea was good for the time, but I say the precept is good for today.
We set aside personal money by force through Social Security. What did government do with it? THey turned it into a "ponzi scheme". Government is not to be trusted in many areas. Sure, pensions are not entitlements if handled in an honest fashion. I think Crocketts idea was, and I'll paraphrase, "when it comes to government revenue, what is good for one is good for all on a level playing field". It is not up to government to pick "winners and losers". Everyone is equal. Doesn't leave much room for the Washington elite, does it? Crockett was a champion of individual liberty and the average man. He even extended those ideas to how Jackson wanted to handle the Cherokee Nation (especially those who had assimilated into American culture, and there were many).

Also today we see the Senate pass laws that do not equally apply to them. As Crockett exemplified, you do not go into public service to get rich, but to serve.
How many of todays politicians own three or more mansions?

One thing of interest that hasn't been mention....Crockett actually helped save Jacksons life by wrestling to the ground an attempted assassin.

 

I agree of course about charity, but I think fighting to the death when your back is against the wall speaks of personal virtue and integrity. The strategy may not have been great, but then again, communication was different in 1836, so I cut those defenders a break on that issue. They believed there was a really good chance of having 400+ more defenders. If they had them, they might not have achieved victory, but Santa Anna would have paid much more dearly. Remember, Santa Anna was the one that offered no choice for surrender.

 

Of course I do not follow the myths played by Fess Parker and particularly John Wayne. The portrayal by Billy Bob Thornton was far more accurate (with the exception of the wonderful fiddle playing) My thoughts here have been affirmed by more that one historian on site at todays Alamo.

Of course the idea that Crockett surrendered in De La Pena's account may be every much the myth as Walt Disney's. Much research has been done on that and belief on it's authenticity is still pretty much divided.

 

School loan forgiveness is not equivalent to government welfare. Students voluntarily apply for the loans and PROMISE to repay them.

 

That would have been a scenario that Crockett would never have dreamed of!

 

But we're talking today. That's the point.

 

Sam Houston played it differently, and the Free State of Texas is the result. Sam Houston lived with the Cherokee as young man and I think he learned a thing or two about guerilla warfare listing to Cherokee's talk about the campfire.

Time and time again Santa Ana would try to get Sam Houston to fight, and Sam would size up the forces, and know that fight meant lose and he ran, ran so that his back wasn't up against the wall. A frustrated Santa Ana chased Sam Houston all over Texas. Then Santa Ana made his tragic mistake.

On banks of the San Jacinto River, Santa Ana split his forces in an attempt to trap Sam Houston. And while Sam Houston knew he couldn't whip Santa Ana's Army, he did know that he could whip HALF of Santa Ana's Army, and he attacked without hesitation. The very same Army that had spent months running, suddenly unleashed and destroyed one half, promptly wheeled and destroyed the remaining half. And the smart thinking continued.

Rather than slaughter Mexican President Santa Ana, like he had slaughtered the defenders of the Alamo, he took him prisoner and gave the Mexicans an offer they could not refuse, their President in exchange for Texas, and Texas has been free to this very day.

Sam Houston is also the only Governor to resign rather than join the Confederacy. And he did so for similar reasons. He sized up the combatants and told his beloved Texans something along the lines of: "You boys are brave and full of fight, and initially you'll do very well, but at some point the North will become more fully aroused and they will descend on you like a force of nature." He made it plain that he would not lead them into a fight, he didn't they would win, they insisted on fighting anyway, so Sam Houston resigned as governor.

• He's the only foreign head of state to become a State Governor
• He's the only person to ever be elected Governor of two different states.
• He was the first person to ever be elected Governor of one state and senator of another state, a feat only recently replicated by Mitt Romney.
• He showed up in Buckskins to try to talk President Andrew Jackson out of the Trail of Tears, and when he failed, he asked for permission to ride with with them so that they would have familiar face on this this deadly trail. His request was granted.

I too admire Davy Crockett, but in a fight, I would rather be commanded by Sam Houston.

 

Absolutely! The only fighting Crockett previously had experienced was as a scout/ hunter in Jackson's Army. People admired and followed him but he never was a military commander. However, he was far more conservative than probably 50% who post here!

 

Yeah.....a lot of us are "old souls living in a new world and it's a damn shame, but it's true". Like gravity, some things never change.

 

and many dismiss our Constitution because "we're talking today".

 

SS is not welfare. Yes, it is deducted at source NOW, but it wasn't in the early days because it was part of the general fund. It did not come around as separate until the 1950s, when Eisenhower was President. In the 1970s, Congress created SSI, or Social Security Supplemental Income. That is defined as a welfare benefit for those who are eligible for SS but don't have enough quareters to even get SSDI or had enough income to meet the minimum threshold for SSDI.

 

De La Pena's account has been verified, or at least parts of it from where the Mexican Army camped in his diary to the account of survivors of the Alamo who said Crockett was still alive when they were led. This was one of the slaves at the Alamo who gave an account and Ms. Dickenson. So, it is highly probable that he was captured according to accounts from the actual survivors, and of De La Pena's diary who said David Crocket with several others were executed after all of Santa Anna's officers pleaded to spare their lives.

 

Davy Crocket was definitely a hero of us who grew up in the 1950’s. Most of us equate Davy to Fess Parker playing the role of Crocket in his 3 Disney movies. Here’s the theme song.





Having coon skinned cap was a must along with old Betsey, Crocket’s rifle. Much simpler times for sure with IKE as president, the U.S. at peace. Davy also opposed then President Jackson’s Indian removals which peeved Jackson off where Jackson used his political machine to beat Davy out of his congressional seat which lead to Davy saying, “To hell with you all, I’m going to Texas.”

 

I would be careful how you define conservative from the past to today. they are not the same at all. Not even the libertarians are that conservative in the days of David Crockett.

That being said, there are Jeffersonian Democrats and Jeffersonian Republicans. We can say the same thing from Jacksonian Democrats and Jacksonian Republicans. In David Crocket's time, the two main thoughts were Jefferson and Jackson. Jackson did everything he could to remove the Jefferson's influence.

 

Yeah but Crockett was his own man. I don't think he took kindly to labels. He did not ascribe to a given narrative. Thus the quote "You all can go to hell I'm going to Texas!"
Crockett was an example of the American Spirit. He did not gravitate to collectives. He liked Jackson but had differences. When I use the term "conservative" individual liberty always resonates in my mind opposed to the collective.
Apply just what I said to day......Progressive Democrats walk lockstep with their narrative. They always speak as one (with the exception of RFK. They even drove Tulsi out of their ranks. Always follow the collective.

On the other hand, Conservative Republicans are most often independent thinkers. It is often their undoing but they are a conglomerate of conservative views. That is also their strength. They don't cancel others and bar them from debate as in the case of the DNC and RFK!

 

I had a coonskin cap as well as an "old Betsy".

 

It was supposed to be a personal retirement account. If an individual had that money and invested at going interest, he would do quite well. It is instead part of the general fund and going broke. Oh but they just print more money. Again, Crockett would have said "told you so!"

 

Yes he was, but so was Andrew Jackson and pretty much everyone else in that time period. We have people here today who are their own man from Barack Obama, to the late Ronald Reagan, Mitt Romney, and even one named Donald J. Trump. The point is that "being your own man" is not congruent to which party you are on in the political spectrum of things. Crocket was a politician when he made that infamous speech. He used his own personal experience, even objecting to Andrew Jackson's bill, to no avail, to not allow the US government to move the Cherokee Nation from Georgia and the Carolinas to the Indian Territory west of the Mississippi.

this is not about progressive anything. Again, progressivism allowed Blacks to vote, women to vote, and even 18 year olds to vote instead of 21. We have had an expanding military, something in which Crockett would be against in his day, that has been propelled mostly by the GOP and to some extent the Democrats since 1945. And that is not progressivism. Congress has now passed laws in which "welfare" has been allowed but it is not as big as you might see.

So, please stop trying to use the standards of yesterday with today. Most people, including most conservatives would not survive in those days since we are so connected with modern conveniences and had something called dueling where you might have to literally defend your life. No state enforced the law against dueling.

 

It was a pension of a widower whose husband fought in the Indian Wars and now has died due to his injuries. It was a pension, much like a pension with the President at that time per the US Constitution. And pensions is not welfare. Never have been, never will be.

 

LoL... pensions for the federal bureaucracy, members of Congress and the President?! Are you kidding me. They make a career grifting off us, take illegal bribes and kickbacks, collude against our interests and when they retire they get to keep grifting off of us? None of us are getting pensions but these non-producers will get to keep picking our pockets for the rest of their lives. The bigger they get and the more blood they suck, the quicker America dies. Am I willing to take this away from these people? Yes. I live without a pension, they can as well.

 

What Crocketts response was to the fact there were many many widows from that war. If you give a pension to one, you must do it for all.

Also, it was a widow not a widower. Men didn't marry men in those days.

 

I just completely disagree with you on your definitions. It was Conservative's that fought to restore "individual liberty" to the race that was held in bondage due to their "collective identity". It was the Progressives that implemented the "War on Poverty" which resulted from black two parent households of the 1940's at 60% to single parent black families at 16% according to Thomas Sowell. That put the black collective into further poverty that we see today.

The idea Conservative's would not survive in those days is inane. Remember, we are the ones that own guns, know how to hunt and defend ourselves, grow our own food, etc. Conservatives are demanding accountability for what is going on in Ukraine and are speaking out against Nation Building (something Crockett would not condone.)

David Crockett would be a modern day MAGA Man!