"Dear Catholic, do you know for sure if you are going to heaven?"

That's true. It is no one's business but your own as God would never twist your arm to be saved since He gave you free will choice. Just as He would not stop you from sinning though He would want for you not to, but you must remember that there are consequences for sinning. Therefore, you have to decide that for yourself. But when you do " .... check out of here..", as you put it, if you are not Born Again thus, Saved, and you begin to see that you simply go to your judgment and then start to see that the surroundings are fading to black instead of seeing the beauty and brightness of Heaven in all of its splendor as the Holy Bible describes it, then you will know the error in your way of thinking but there will be absolutely no way to rectify it at that point in time.

So, in your way of thinking you risk a lot since you will continue to live in spirit for Eternity in a place of void but if that is your preference just by not wanting to say those few words in the Prayer of Salvation that could make you a Born Again Christian and guarantee that you will be with Jesus for eternity in Heaven, then it will be your own personal decision. But bear in mind that your decision will remain for Eternity and that's a VERY Long Time.

 

Because all Christians have a mind of their own and free will to choose to do as they will. And many do not yet know Jesus Christ in the right way. If they did, they would know that it is only He who can offer Salvation unto them as there is no other passage into Heaven without first being Saved through Jesus Christ.

Yes, that's it. Except that once being Born Again you should certainly strive to live a much better life realizing the gravity of having said the Prayer of Salvation and the expectation from God for you to serve Him as best you can and to avoid sin. But He also knows that you are still in human embodiment and you may yet fall prey to sin again however, praying for forgiveness and to be led out of sin will greatly help you to avoid that pitfall in the future.

As for the Prayer of Salvation being irreversible, Yes it is, once said. That is why no one twists your arm to say it and you take your own initiative to do it because you want to go to Heaven. But why would you even think of reversing it, if you had the chance, and imperil your soul and spirit once again and be denied entrance into Heaven to be with Jesus when you pass on? That would not be rational thinking.

I did not judge you. I cannot judge you, only God can. I merely voiced my observation because my friend, if you had been a Christian and Born Again, you would have proudly declared that at the beginning of our conversation as most do in order to identify your alignment with Jesus Christ. You did not. However, I did not attempt to make it your fault. You did that all by yourself by not properly bringing that into the open when we commenced our discourse.

You may have rejected your Christian indoctrination in the past as was your free will choice, but now you are a Born Again Christian, provided you said the Prayer of Salvation, which means that all of that is in the past, gone, wiped and washed away and you are now "Born Again" as a new Christian without that former excess baggage.

The Holy Bible is not the word of man. It is the infallible Word of God given unto man to distribute unto mankind.

"My view" is what God has said it should be and the way it is. I do not argue with my Creator as He is omniscient, all-knowing. I only follow what He says I should do in order to become Saved which I wanted to be and am. And I am so very glad that I did so while I still had that opportunity because one never knows, one day had I put it off and I would leave this world unexpectedly, as sometimes happens, not having been saved my soul and spirit would be truly imperiled throughout eternity according to God. Therefore, I am merely reflecting what He has taught us in the Holy Bible.

 

If there is one thing I can't stand, its people to arrogant or too stupid to understand that there beliefs and their faith is an opinion, and only an opinion.

You're a fanatic, and you arrogantly believe that you have a duty to prove and push your agenda on other people.

YOU are the problem.

 

A moot point if the following is true;

You can't have it both ways... either you need to be born again to be saved... or... your own heart decides that if you are with Jesus Christ.

Jesus never saved me as all my prayers, countless hours in Church, and reading the Bible never helped me. I found God outside Christianity which proved to me that the Christian dogma of one can only come to God through Jesus is BS.

Personally I do not care what religion a person practices, but I see you as being hypocritical in saying that Catholics are wrong while having no evidence to back up your claim. You are foolish to believe that the Bible is not wide open to interpretation. If I am going to heaven because I uttered a prayer but have never taken to the dogma of Christianity, but a good Catholic who has spent their entire life in the service of God will go to hell... then I say your God is an evil god which just gives me more a reason to reject it.

Meh, as a Deist I think that God is known by many different names and all who know God know the same God... but that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. I leave the exercise in futility of defining a theological intangible to the religious as I believe that faith begins where reason ends.

 

Why fear that which does not exist?

And what evidence outside the Bible do you have in support of that claim?

I will offer you a challenge that I have offered here before. Prove to me the resurrection of Christ really happened and I will forever endeavor to serve Christ to the best of my ability. By the way I will reject Bible passages as proof unless you can prove that they are the actual words of God.

 

I have never argued that they should, unequivocally, do anything that they are not led to do. I have only shown them the way to Salvation letting them know of the consequences of inaction.

If you understood the Bible you would know that it is the duty of every Christian to show others the way towards salvation.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." -- MATTHEW 28:19-20 KJV​

You may accuse me of being the problem now, but when your time comes for your judgment and you were not Saved, you will remember me and will wish you had taken steps to become Born Again, only by then it will be too late. That is entirely your choice, however.

 

There are several versions but I much prefer to use the King James Version as it is the authorized version that has produced over One Billion copies worldwide.

Version Information
https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/King-James-Version-KJV-Bible/

 

You are certainly free to believe as you will due to God giving you free will choice. But God has spoken on these issues and that is what I, personally, care to believe as Truth.

As for Catholics, you said: "If I am going to heaven because I uttered a prayer but have never taken to the dogma of Christianity, but a good Catholic who has spent their entire life in the service of God will go to hell... then I say your God is an evil god which just gives me more a reason to reject it."

Again, if you said the Prayer of Salvation you will go to Heaven because in essence, you gave your life to Jesus Christ and became Born Again through Him as what the Bible says you need to do in order to be saved. A good Catholic, on the other hand, no matter how good or how many good deeds he or she does in their lifetime cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven simply by being in service to God or mankind. While certainly that is a very good thing to do, it does not at all guarantee them salvation as the road to Hell is always paved with good intentions. It is their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their LORD and Savior that will get them into Heaven. There is no other way. I don't know how many times I have to keep repeating myself for you to understand that point.

I just wish that now that you are saved you would take that seriously and understand that you should be working to amend your life and turn over a new leaf by thanking God through Jesus Christ for the opportunity to save yourself rather than being so argumentative on things that are spiritual. I hope that rather than continuing in this seemingly endless vein of questions you would just sit back and open your Bible and read it to understand more on the questions you are seeking to be answered. God is always the BEST Source of information about His Word.

 

Based on YOUR opinion. Your beliefs. Your interpretation.

What a stubborn and arrogant perspective.

Of course the bible is interpreted. The fact that you believe that it isn't only showcases how entrenched you are in believing that only YOU must have the right answer. That only YOU and your faith could be correct.

I honestly can't stand arrogant fanatics like you. You (*)(*)(*)(*) me off with you holier-than-thou attitude that everybody must align with your views or they are wrong.

You do realize that the bible itself was written not by Jesus or the Lord, but rather the scripture was an interpretation of events captured by Jesus's disciples? Right?

So how can you make the claim that there is no plausible interpretation to those documents? Of course there is. It's an interpretation in and of itself. Even the bible contradicts itself in many instances and is open to interpretation.

The good book also says that you shouldn't judge others. What happened with you and those teachings? Sure seems to me you have no problem following the bible and it's teachings so long as it allows you to tell other people they are wrong.

You're a fanatic.

Buzz off.

 

You're a stubborn fool, too dense to understand that your faith is simply an opinion.

ITS AN OPINION!

People like you really do make me sick. You align yourself with those portions of the bible which promote your beliefs, and ignore the rest.

You're not much better than the folks of westboro baptist church.

Hmmm. That particular scripture seems to contradict your claims. Weird.

Damn! That is what it takes to be "saved"? To call on the name of the Lord. Weird, that doesn't align with the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) you have been tossing out in this thread.

I am pretty sure that Catholics proclaim by the word of mouth that Jesus is Lord. No?

I really could go on with this all day long. Catholics seem to read a different bible than you. Or at least the pay attention to the entire book.

It is faith that earns one the gift of heaven. The bible even says that it isn't by actions, but by belief.


You know what though. Your a religious extremist. Your too entrenched in your own belief, sadly aligning yourself with the concept that anybody that doesn't join you is wrong and will go to hell. You are a radical.

For that reason, I am done. You're wrong. Its that simple. Have a great day.

 

according to you, not to them. according to you, if someone believes a thing it must be true for all humanity (YOUR premise, as manifest above) therefore whatever catholics believe about the way you do things is also true.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't 'resort' to ridicule, I make it my first order of business

 

well he would be, but he's not answering the phone. in fact, no one's heard from him for about 2000 years. if you have access to his private number, and have consequently been able to verify that what is in the bible is what god actually meant, then you should probably alert the media - to help get this vital information out in a way in which it might be taken more seriously. before you do that, though, could you tell US how you've been able to get god's clearance on the interpretations made by men (ie, the bible)? what mode of transmission did the god use? and how did you ascertain to 100% satisfaction that the transmission came from the ancient jewish sky god, and not from Vishnu, or Odin, or Satan? please give as much detail as possible in answering these last questions ... as having some weight behind any given evangelised idea makes it far more likely that others will heed it. I know that's important to you, so yeah, knock yourself out

 

Dear friend, if God does not already live in your heart and you do not embrace Him and His Word in Faith you will not be able to discern His spiritual messages unto mankind. That is why you are having such difficulty in your belief of Him and His Word. If you had openly welcomed Him into your life, as a Christian, and followed His teachings you would know at the soul level that His Word is Truth and would not have the questions of an un-Believer. That is part of having Faith. If all answers were to have been laid out for you and others then where would your faith be? A person would stagnate in their spiritual growth. But God did not design things that way. You have to learn to believe in God through Faith and Faith alone since God is Spirit and you cannot see Him physically. And that which is spiritual cannot be tested by man as it is far above his understanding.

As for Salvation and being Born Again, what all should understand are the following words of Jesus Christ and why He is Essential to your Salvation.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -- JOHN 14:6 KJV​

 

'unbeliever questions' evidently being those which scare the crap out of you.

I see your indoctrination is so complete that you can't even look at my questions, let alone actually answering them. You might want to, instead, consider just how shaky your dogma is, if simple and reasonable questions have you so rattled that you retreat into thought blocking mumbo jumbo.

 

I'll repeat them again now for you. This time you might like to try and answer .. just pretend your faith is strong, and it'll be much easier

*could you tell us how you've been able to get god's clearance on the interpretations made by men (ie, the bible)?
*what mode of transmission did the god use?
*and how did you ascertain to 100% satisfaction that the transmission came from the ancient jewish sky god, and not from Vishnu, or Odin, or Satan?

please give as much detail as possible in answering these questions ... as having weight behind these ideas makes it far more likely others will listen. I know that's important to you, as you've frequently stated.

 

According to who ? My "Someone is claiming to speak for God" sensors are going off.

Found your answer in a later post.

So you are claiming that the "True word" of the entire Bible is that one dunk oneself in water and claim to be reborn and that is the only way to salvation. Got it.

A couple of questions:

1) Why does the vast majority of Christianity disagree with you
2) Why does Jesus preach method for salvation other than what you are claiming

 

Please try to educate yourself better before you reply.

Your reference to baptism is not what God considers for one to be Saved or Born Again. While important for every Christian, that is not what will actually get you to Heaven. And I have never said that you need to be baptized in order to be Saved. So don't try to convince others that I said something that I clearly didn't.

In answer to your #1 question.

The vast majority of Christians, that is, those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ and have reached out to Him for their salvation are in total agreement not with me but with the Word of God as to how they can become saved. Of that there can be absolutely no question. Those who are not Saved yet obviously do not know Jesus well and have a Big Decision to make soon, before they die.

#2. We don't fall victim to your red herrings. What I have been saying about Salvation all along is what Jesus has said. I am reflecting what He said through Scripture that all should know.

 

It is typical that those who "claim to speak for God" to react with self righteous indignation" when asked to clarify their beliefs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_(Christianity)

As stated previously, the majority of Christianity has a different perspective of what is required for salvation than you and baptism is normally a big part of it.

So you are now claiming that you know what God thinks and the Majority of Christianity do not.

You seem to be claiming that the process of being born again, from an evangelical perspective, does not involve ritual baptism ? If I have misinterpreted you then state what you mean more clearly.

You speak about the word of God but you have yet to show what the word of God says in relation to salvation. To make sure we are on the same page here, Salvation is what is required to gain entrance into heaven.

The real question then is what does Jesus say is required to gain entrance into heaven. Since there is much debate within Christianity on what these requirements are please clarify what Jesus said in order for you to come to this conclusion.

It is not a red herring. It is a statement of fact. You claim that one needs be "born again" in order to get into heaven. Since you have not clarified what being "Born Again" means according to you I suppose I should not state that the majority does not agree with you.

So, according to you, what exactly does Born Again mean such that you think you will make it through the Pearly Gates.

 

We do believe in being Born Again, and that it's a requirement for salvation. That said, our view of what being Born Again means is different. We believe that we are born again in baptism. (see John 3:3-

 

I disagree. It's pretty clear in scripture that being Born again is being born again in the water and the spirit, aka Baptism. (John 3:3-

In terms of the initial question of the thread, we are told to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. IMHO, anybody who has no doubts about their own salvation is being presumptious towards God.

 

and here they are again, again.

still waiting for your detailed responses