Democracy Inevitably Leads to Totalitarianism

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 1stvermont, Dec 23, 2024.

  1. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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  2. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    What leads to totalitarianism is the establishment of a permanent bureaucracy which will in the fullness of time become more interested in the acquisition of power for it own sake and expanding their perks and prerequisites.
     
  3. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Which is a natural result of centralized Democratic power.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    often related to equal rights vs religious beliefs demanding their religion be the only religion
     
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  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Centralized power happens no matter what you do. It is in the very nature of government that it will usurp all the power the people under it will yield up to it. The Federalist papers are full of caveats of the sort. It is why those first ten amendments are about limiting the power of government vis a vis the lives of the governed.
     
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to the notion that government is the only possible religion,
     
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  7. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First you didn't define what the freedom is.

    Freedom of what? Freedom not to pay taxes? Freedom to drive on the left side of the road? Freedom to be sick and freedom to spread viruses and bakteria? Freedom to drink and drive?
    It is obvious that if you want to live in advanced society you have to give up some of your freedoms.
    What is freedom for me? It is freedom of speech, freedom of leave the country anytime I want, freedom to read any book I want, freedom to watch any movie I want, freedom of having sex or sex position with anyone who agree, etc.

    Can the Democracy lead to dictatorship?

    Yes, just look for example on reactions of Americans to January 6, reaction of South Koreans to declaration of martial law or reaction of Bangladesh people to demonstration suppression.

    What is your conclussion?
     
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  8. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Under republics and democracies yes. But history offered us a sure alternative. A prevention to centralized power.
     
  9. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Self governance for one, but freedom in how limited the government is. You enjoy those freedoms you mentioned, as do I, I would much rather have more!
     
  10. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What other freedoms you would like to have?
     
  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Centralized power is centralized power whether it runs a city a county a proving or a country and that power will always try to spread. Anarchy also always becomes rule by the biggest club or guy with the most clubbers supporting him. The two worst states of man are too little and too much govern too little and the barbarian steel everything to much and the government itself becomes a worse plague than the Barbarians. The problem with human beings is that they are not perfect and cannot be perfect so that maintaining a balance between to little and too much government is a constant struggle
     
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  12. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    Instability leads to totalitarianism. If you look at the history of revolutions, they go through three phases. First, the original governing body is overthrown. Second, there is a very fluid period when various factions are looking to gain control. Ultimately a strong man, usually an authoritarian dictator, takes charge and establishes order often with an iron hand.

    Among the three major revolutions in western civilization history, the British had Cromwell, the French had Napoleon and the Russians ended up with Lenin and finally Stalin.
     
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  13. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    In our case, the Leftists want Progressivism to be the state religion.
     
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  14. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Donor

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    Freedom in the form of the United States is an aberration. We have been here a blink of time civilization wise. There have been forms of freedom, but few as unfettered and not class related as America (that we know of). For that reason, I don't think it will last. (China thinks we are just a fart in the wind. I see their point.). But... it will probably last for "awhile"...
     
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  15. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone think of a successful governing system without a perminant buearucracy
     
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  16. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Define "successful governing system".
     
  17. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    There's no reason why we can't push back against all attempts at theocracy, including that. Pointing at one doesn't excuse another.
     
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  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    True. And democracy in the United States is an illusion.
     
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  19. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    It is a system that governs successfully.
     
  20. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Nazi Germany governed successfully. So did the Soviet Union. They had awesome permanent bureaucracies.
     
  21. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the natural inclination of humans leads to authoritarianism which includes democratic societies which seems counter intuitive to many. This is behind the eternal vigilance needed to keep individual liberty. Different from socialism (including so-called democratic socialism) which inevitably leads to authoritarianism.
     
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    If this is true, then we should avoid democracy at all costs. Would you suggest we avoid it so that totalitarianism could be avoided?
     
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  23. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. But the original question was a system that ruled successfully without a bureaucracy.
     
  24. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    The Nazis and the Soviets were successful.
     
  25. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    for a while and they had huge bureaucracies.

    The question was name any country who was successful without a bureaucracy. Please name one.
     

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