Democracy Inevitably Leads to Totalitarianism

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 1stvermont, Dec 23, 2024.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    To say nothing of the fact that much of what the federal government does it constitutionally should not be doing in the first place.
     
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  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The cure for that is firing bureaucrats which is what Trump will do. It is the popular vote that eventually leads to totalitarianism which took place in Venezuela. The Democrats are pushing for the popular vote and is trying to turn America into a one party system by flooding the U.S. with illegal aliens.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    IMO Madison wasn't mistrusting power, he was pointing out that humans holding power are prone to corruption. See the difference? He knew power was necessary for a state to function. When he helped write the Constitution he and his friends were attempting to ration and specify and restrain power. The document is one of enumerated powers and unenumerated rights of men, hence the Ninth Amendment.
     
  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see any distinction between what you've posited and what others have with respect to government. You've simply used democracy as a substitute. The error you made, and they make, is to treat democracy as an abstraction. As if it is a nameless, faceless entity that exists on its own. As if it has its own power rather than only having that which we the people give to it, like government. If democracy descends in to totalitarian government it is the fault of the participants and nothing else's.
     
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  5. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Your not forced.
     
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That sounds vaguely like the fictional "deep state," a fabricated term designed to create the illusion of a defined entity for weak minded believers to rail against. Anarchists like Steve Bannon use the term to convince the rubes the administrative state needs to be dismantled. Master manipulators like trump use it when there is resistance to his autocratic impulses.

    Let me ask you this. Who do you believe is behind this conspiracy "that keeps the population from what has been the norm among free people in human history." Who are they, how do they exert control, what motivates them?

    I have observed dozens of times the electorate has become uneducated, apathetic, and willfully misinformed. The power vacuum that has been created in the absence of "we the people" ceding our power has been filled by lobbyists, media propagandists, and think tanks with monied interests behind them. We find ourselves in this circumstance not because of an inherent failing of democracy but rather of ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
  7. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We elect the government officials who make the laws governing us. I think you've been reading too much de Tocqueville. Perhaps even ripping him off.
     
  8. caroasi

    caroasi Newly Registered

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    Its great to see you created that website content. I'm not entirely unconvinced that people will always abuse Democracy the way they have, but clearly that has been the case and it was predicted by the USA founding fathers. There are three key attitudes that have damaged Democracy into the tatters of today:

    1. The concept you can vote away rights, as you so well put. Or put another way, people seem to think they can vote to violate other people's rights. The way I would put it is the ruling class has one set of rights and the subjects as surfs have another set of rights, all in the name of "democracy". That isn't really democracy though, that is a lie of Democracy we have today.
    2. The idea that voting is the primary responsibility of a Democracy whereas relying on others in that capacity is a failure of the self and the community for self-reliance. Voting is merely an opinion poll and shouldn't considered anything other than that. Opinions can be wrong. If you see a problem, solve a problem. Other people are not your servants, either public or private, they can be your cooperative partners sure, but don't expect them to be your servants.
    3. The problem-reaction-solution model that when something goes wrong, government is supposed to "do something" when in fact UNDOING something they already did is typically the obvious solution. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what your country can undo for you because they screwed everything up and need to abolish many departments in full. The idea that governments can enslave future generations with debt is highly offensive, highly stupid, highly irresponsible, highly immoral, and only one problem of this problem-reaction-solution nonsense that goes on.
     
  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The de jure rights enshrined in law treat everyone equally (the exception being the SC's recent immunity ruling). Those with means enjoy de facto advantages allowing them to manipulate the system as trump has tried to do, somewhat successfully.
     
  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Democratic Republic.

    There are, essentially, two types of republics.

    1. The kind that appoint their leaders.
    2. The kind that elect their leaders, directly or indirectly.

    The #1 kind tend to be authoritarian.
    The #2 kind are democracies.

    From there, there are many sub types, as we can see here:

    https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/republic-types-countries

    Republics come in different forms of government, but a common one is a democracy.

    "Democracy' is a descriptive term, often used in high minded and poetic terms. A republic that elects it's leaders by vote, direct, or indirect, is a democracy AND a republic, thus 'representative democracy' or 'representative republic' or 'constitutional republic' where 'republic is the form, and 'democracy' is the descriptor.

    As such, they are not mutually exclusive terms.

    We've had this debate many times on this forum, so you are beating a very dead horse.

    My source are the Encyclopedia Britannica and the Government's own website, not to mention the halls of academia and the body politic for a number of centuries. In fact, in my entire 73 years of being on this earth, it's only Repubs who are going around ranting that America is not a democracy, and they have been spewing this nonsense rather recently, round about the time they started losing the popular vote in presidential elections, apparently they need to poo poo democracy in order to feel good about their anti-democratic policies in various states, and there having won the popular vote only twice in over 30 years.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The definition of Democratic Republic as posted has absolutely nothing to do with why the founders went for a Constitutional Republic.

    The reason the founders opted for a Constitutional Republic was to avoid "Tyranny of the Majority" .. which you get with direct democracy.

    Both Republicanism and Classical Liberalism refers to 50 plus 1 majority in a referendum or Simple majority Mandate via elected official - on issues of Essential Liberty as "Tyranny of the Majority"
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
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  12. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Why did you address this to me? Seems like most of your discussion focuses on the PDS quote
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
  13. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The printing of fiat currency, called 'quantitative easing', has been done by all parties.

    The recent inflation were due largely to Trump's CARES act, $2 trillion fiat currency printed to finance it, and Biden's ARP, another $2 trillion

    The pandemic threatened to collapse the economy and these programs were deemed necessary to prop up the economy.

    The inflation that ensued was the price the world paid to prevent economic collapse.

    In fact, no party has done more to destroy America than the GOP, especially since Reagan:

    No party has done more for America than Democratic Party:
    And

     
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  14. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Or you are. Federalist Paper #10 is pretty firm in poo-pooing "democracy. " "Representative Democracy" is an oxymoron.
    LOL,
    AS IF the government would say anything else. The election blather would serve better to fertilize your law.
    A total appeal to authority logical fallacy.
     
  15. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Be interesting to see which party controlled Congress during all those Democratic Presidents' economic success.
    Given that the President has little direct hand in the actual Budget and appropriation process.
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Yes as if Republicans have ever been in a real position before or after Gingrich to dictate spending.Democrats have heald the house where spending must constitutionally be initiated for the overwhelming majority of the twentieth century and about half of the 21. Trumps two trillion went to the American people most of his corporate tax cut went to small businesses not necessarily to the fortune five hundred the upper echelon of which are well served by the Neo cons and Democrats. The 2nd 2 trillion By Biden mostly went to democrat support groups. And was almost entirely unnecessary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    PDS was responding to you .. so included you in the response to him.
     
  18. NMNeil

    NMNeil Well-Known Member

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    "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

    Sir Winston Churchill
     
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Having you ass thrown in jail or shot if you refuse to pay or accept being thrown in to Jail is force
     
  20. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Leave the country, not forced.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Forced to leave the country. You are being insipid.
     
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  22. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    So your an anarchist then.
     
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I mean yeah it prolly will, but what kind of totalitarianism can actually exist within a well armed society, and for how long?
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Nope the argument is about how much government one needs there is a hell of a lot of space between anarchist and totalitarian.
     
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  25. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Well apparently you object to the absolute minimum of paying for govt services, whatever they are.
     

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