Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by zacariah88, Feb 22, 2023.

  1. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

    G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

    Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

    Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d. When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if you stuck to the topic.

    The many divisions of the Abrahamic family of faiths don't agree on free will.
     
  3. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    That's a heck of a first post!

    The way I see it, there's no such thing as "free" anything.

    As the infamous 60's bumper sticker proclaimed, "Grass, gas, or ass, nobody rides for free!" Seems like that sentiment might apply to one's will, as well.
     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Free will isn't about defraying a cost.

    It is to be compared with determinism.
     
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  5. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Is there not a cost to everything we do?
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    ??? Again, this isn't about cost.

    It is about whether humans have real free choice.

    For example, some believe that occurrences are fully controlled as products of previous events, not choice.

    There are various versions of determinism.

    In theology, it may mean predestination. Perhaps the choices humans make are something that was settled at the beginning of time.
     
  7. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    Destiny can be changed and it's based on choice God gave it so use it wisely.freewill does exist even do in light and dark is use it is God who decides.



    check this out and it gives different perspectives about freewill.

    Point of view of science



     
  8. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    This is the point only God who is creator of good and evil of light and darkness is who moves it all, we were never meant to understand. What would of happen if he would of not put the tree of good and evil and would of never enter this world. We would of being like children still with our envelope of innocence and be in front of God protected by him ?


    Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eatena nd alter remove by God ?





    But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us. The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?




    No, this why it is better that inside this world we live we can live in many possibilities and be saved by grace and baptized from sin into salvation and put love into salvation ! We would not of found our destiny if we could decide our destiny in that moment from baby to adult in space. He put us in Eden to be protected and choose not to eat the tree of good and evil and let use have choice ! If we didn't eat we will be perfect and without sin ! But we felled and he gave As econd chance in Jesus and glad that even those scientist believe if they ahd possiblity to ebf ree into choosing thier future our possiblities from predestination would make thier sum of equations and free from God soveriegn and have freewill ?
     
  9. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    You have freewill protected and relying in God's effort and his soveriegn that you are not in space making decision but here in the world where in his care of law of moses and law of genesis. They would not of eating the fruti they will live in the probabilities in those rules and soveriegn of G-d's law and love. Be under his guidance and be saved. Knowing we can change those probablities and change our destiny from being A shoe salesman and into lawyer or governor of A state and reach our max and be what we want !


    Moses chaneg those probabilities and also Huldah in her prophecy, G-d could reverse those action make us forget it and then done but he let those error stay and destiny was changed seeing he does not make it all effect in a sense of our errors do not ruin our future and in error the Eden will return and heaven on earth and we will be saved despite our errors in Jesus. God could of just erase us and no one will know of our exsitence and done but he lets us know and see those error have existed and predestiantion can change and destiny and sum of those variables and one million in one probablities can change and anything is possible. Let us do good and make knowing of good and evil in God's favor and find our purpose in life and pray to him.


    See he made probablities and the sense some people say that one can make decision and really can't change thier future or predestiantion just fear and laziness that future can change and just like Moses and Huldah made mistake know we can make success into our favor and do good and chaneg our future with him and play ahrd abll i life and into all the promblems life does go thru and breakthru it all and not passive christian that rolls over and breaks the mold life give and make good in life and saves his family.


    Kicks and screams and changes his future his predestiantion and not this that with God you can't change your future or predestiantion I see you can't change your future idea and you do not understand it still ! This why you do not understand how freewill works in God's favor and his plan of God. But still stuck with the laws of modern world and liberalism USA faces ! You have freedom to choose and better under God's wing and not in space where psycologist and scientist say they don't get to choose and if they choose they would make more errors and wouldn't recognize them !
     
  10. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    I get it. I was just taking it step further suggesting that the term freewill is meaningless.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Free will vs determinism is a major topic of philosophy.

    Before making suggestions it might be good to read the wiki entry on determinism to get an outline on what the various positions and justifications are.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Many who believe in the god of Abraham believe in predestination, not free will.
     
  13. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    I delved quite deeply into philosophy at different times in my life and understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that there are ALWAYS different ways of appreciating [all things]. I rarely take anything at face value.
     
  14. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    It's like that:

    1. You fulfill God's will - you don't get punished.
    2. You don't fulfill God's will - you get punished.

    Up to you to decide. :lol:
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not like that at all.

    The controversial laws in question today have to do with whether you think YOUR god hates what I'm doing and thus YOU have the right to judge in the name of your god and mete out punishment in his name.

    I'd point out THAT is the original sin, described so eloquently in the Genesis story of Eden.

    YOU want to partake of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - YOU want to be my judge as if YOU are god.

    According to the Bible, your god gave you the Tree of Life - NOT the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is for God alone.
     
  16. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    yes it is an illusion but God can give us the power to decide.

    I think that the reason we will be held morally responsible for unbelief is rooted in what is written in John 3:18-21.

    Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Jhn 3:19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


    Given a choice to either believe or not believe, one might choose not to believe because his deeds are evil and he does not want them to be exposed to the light. Or, one might choose to believe because he does the truth and he wants his deeds to be manifest that they have been wrought in God.

    The fact that there are reasons behind belief or unbelief does not negate moral responsibility; because those very reasons have the morality of the individual at their base.

    So, understanding that I may not have free will because those reasons are predetermined does not negate moral responsibility. I choose to believe or not believe based on reasons that have their basis in morality.
     
  17. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    Know that you have freewill and God gave it to you since the dawn of time we all have it and also since Eden know that the devil had it and it was his downfall to atack God but man fell but not's it's fault but the enemy and justice will be ours.



    The holy spirit works and exist accordance to God's will and for A purpose as we see freewill existed people. God gave it to us even to the devil ahd freewill. How he got it and still why of he's rebbelion is still A mystery.


    But we know that the heart has A part to play with freewill from the lord. Heart is where is the mind is and how the mind does things we exist thanks to God's will to put conscience and know of our existence. We have existence since we can talk and obey question is our conscience of Adam is the smae us our modern humans think ? Or Like A recent baby thinks when he coms to the world. What is the basis of conscience ?


    Our freedom is from our conscience and tell us what we are.

     
  18. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    See that the commandments have to do witht he will the lord spoke and gave commandments this is why were giving freewill because they were written in our heart.

    everything is connected and shows the plan of God and secrets inside of it. Truly not only is God's will in his plan but to put things in God's hands, child of heart, the wil of God, the law of eden, the laws of noah, and the 10 commandments and 613 commandments in their and put love shows us the secrets of the plan of God.





    We all have freewill and we use it but it must not rely on our efforts but on God efforts.
     
  19. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    Because one you have since Adam " Choice " he can choose and not like the devil you can change your thinking that everything is decide you have to think outside the box ! People here the conlflict so many people is your freewill because everything is predestined you think you never had any choice God gave you A choice ! You were sent here by God A long time ago for God said he met you and knew you before you were concieved in your mother's womb. You have a plan, God planned you and sent you, you don't know it ! Yet. Were all part of God's divine plan and when he sent you here before you came to this world he gave A mission ! What is your mission or purpose ?

    You can decide to use God's will, holy spirit , God's plan ( It's all separeted but works for his plan at the end !) and love in his mission your purpose or don't know and live in ignorance an sin ! He give you choice and does not force yourself to do his bidding if so you would not have fredom to choose also from Jesus salvation which he agve freely from love !
     
  20. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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  21. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    You cannot be saved on your own efforts only in G-d's effort and how do you obtain them ?

    Just like Jesus did. The bible says God came as the son and came without power and did so for A reason. And he came without power. Why did God came as Jesus with no power but one to pray to God. God came as man naked and could die like any other man ! He did not bring A host of angels with him. He show the whole world how he wanted man before the fall of man, praying. Jesus prayed and prayed he prayed in the morning , in the evening, and in the night.

    And what he said is

    Matthew 6:10
    10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

    Jesus is the second Adam he is what Adam was supposed to be and Jesus was not giant like adam, he had no superpowers like Superman or Samson, he had no army to prove what God wanted from man to talk to him and pray and do the 2 commands " Love thy father and they neighbor " That is all to be like Jesus simple.

    Do that ! He didn't came with A huge host of angels and ended the world he let them repent and have A choice to love him and be saved by him. You put things in God's hands and when A storm comes you don't let go of his hands and show you were faithful to him.
     
  22. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    Just to make A recap everyone from the first to remembering the last posts that were done but we have to see what hebrew say when using those words of "free" and choice and know the whole area is also tied to the slaves system Judean mosaic law applies people. Did you know their is A law that saw if A slave from another country comes to Israel he is free under the law of moses and musn't be return to his country to be slave ? He can be free forever

    Understand our freedom did exist ! And existed in Heaven when Lucifer rebbeled, truly freewill exist in the spectrum of decision but the concept of the past, present, and future makes us think freewill doesn't exist because everything God's see's and foresaws decided everything for us. Nope people just like their are sciences explaining our existence their is other realms of existence of aliens, spirits and time that our thinking does not know and exist God created it becuase he is above it all but paths that exist and ways that exist in those ways explain that freedom exist probablility exist and Lucifer is one that's he was perfect in every sense we do knot know and yet he reblled and proves freewill myth is not myth and Ray I copy something from him. Still were just the tip of the iceberg in freewill and consciousness and existing explaining that what we percieve in our brains and eyes is not how freewil is exist by God and he gives us choice to do good and evil people don't understand it.


    Because they want to control the base of it and with words grab their destiny and say like scientist they cannot really choose because their future was chosen for them and everything is planned ? Not true Moses and Hulda and Elijah changed the future of the world with thier decision can we who are in this choosing of good and evil also change the destiny of this world and do good and not the same mistakes as them ? Yes, we can can Jesus do it ? He did change our destiny all together.
     
  23. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    No, people you just beggining to enter the tip of freewill as we speak we have the verses and in greek mean different things and in hebrew mean different things. But how in the universe rules are different and no we are bound becuase their Is more to God he is not showing we know him as the God of before, today and tomorrow are thier more time measurements in the universe ? Yes, Do angels, aliens, and other beings that exist have different counting than we do ? Yes, understand God is beyond destiny and he gives us that to be measure by time like we know it now but there is more ways to count time from angel perspective, alien perspective, and above all from God's perpsective for he is has not limits in time and he has counting system different from us.


    Freewill is it based from God's letting people to choose to love him or not ? He let us choose our destiny can change from that ? Dont' go too far people he onlys wants us to choose either to be freed by him from sin thru Jesus and be baptized simple as that and not to choose to do evil simple people. Does freedom exist outside of our science and counting time and counting destiny and God can make it happen ? Yes he can he can do it all for he is God and only God judges God ! We cannot go beyond that but he can create it people. Don't rely on your own efforts in your decision but pray and rely on his and he will unchange your destiny to do your dream of saving your family to be rich man in god's way and be the thing you want he put in your heart to free in freewill in his love he gaves us life to choose and enjoy this magnificent thing called life and live it with all your might and feelings.


    Choose God above it all and put him first he will change your ways and find your dream come reality and really be all the things you can be !
     
  24. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    People our will has been always united to him before our birth when we are born we think we have independence from him or we started in this existence born a citizen in A counrty and we are not connected to him ?

    We are and have always been here the error we think we are seperated from him by independance or by vote or by going to the ballot. Know we are in A greater thing and that is love. Know in how in A realm or in kingdom of love know we were never meant to be born inpendant from him. We were meant in to be with him always perhaps our idealogy of freedom and politics cannot be used in this relationship. Here two promblems that come and clash that our existence is us knowing we exist and conscience gives us the ability to know who we are and what is life and it's purpose but the other clash is we are born/created from God and did not want us to kow good and evil but wanted to live in the garden and knowing becomes sin and we are spearate from him and know freedom is sin ?

    No, we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey bu letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did can we have the relationship Adam had with God like Jesus had with God ? Yes.

    The first is that we are born into existence know we are being we are born picture this if Human created and A.I. and it could live and feel like us but still would it ask space and says he diecide evrything by itself what you would you ? let it decide already and it's virgin mind be crisp clean and letting ti go it's own way like the wind and goes perfectly align in the universe by itself ? Some would argue it should be free because it would fit life perfectly going it's natural way and not our humans and animal way to destroy and control everything like our civilization has done since greeks and since romans to do. Rememeber we were never meant to be like this with A civilization and army, No.
     
  25. zacariah88

    zacariah88 Newly Registered

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    Expand our views maybe this will help (I believe the man, L. Ray Smith, who authored this website is deceased)

    The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
    "Free will does not actually and literally mean that one can make choices, create, change his mind, or reformulate ideas and data, etc., but that those choices and thought processes must themselves be free thoughts and free choices. "Free will" is only true if our choices are also free. But free from what? Why, free from being forced upon us against our will, or free from being caused by anyone or anything except our OWN will. And so, yes, man can think, process data, make choices, change his choices, etc. But none of these activities are free from internal or external CAUSES.


    Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even "force,' if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about."
    I've had people in my life that would not do me any favors, change their minds and help me with situations. It's really odd to watch, cause it's like, what just happened?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2023

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