Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by zacariah88, Feb 22, 2023.

  1. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    You are assuming there IS a "why"?
    Is there a reason for that assumption?
     
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  2. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    It will probably remain unknown to EVERYONE. Because of the way our physical world works some things are apparently unknowable.
     
  3. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do we need to know that? You need to know that god exists because the world exists?
    Why does god exist? Because the universe exists?
    If you believe in eternity then everything has always existed. Not just in the future but also in the past.
    Eternity definition, infinite time; duration without beginning or end. The idea in the Bible just looks forward - not backward.
    The whole idea of God always being there leaves the question why wait for eternity to create the Universe?. And then to create a being he knew would fail his test and condemn him to a life on this unstable planet. If original sin were true then men don't even stand a chance. And if god knows everything - why bother creating man?
     
  4. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am assuming that because humans are hardwired to question how and why. It's an innate part of who we are. We also have, an innate need to fill a God shaped hole within us.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  5. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Then why are there so many secularists who say "We don't know how creation worked, but we know one thing with absolute certainty, God didn't do it, there is no God?"
     
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  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our ability to ask questions IS NOT evidence that there is an answer and certainly not that there is a specific answer.

    Also, there are good arguments for predestination (vs. free choice), at least in the sense of biology/physics.

    Yes, we really do love to have answers, but we feel good about answers that are known to be false.

    We are not somehow driven to ensure that answers have validity.
     
  7. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    What known false answers do you feel good about?
     
  8. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Well clearly Pharoah did not have free will when God hardened his heart before killing the first born children in Egypt.
     
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  9. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Will it? If we find what caused the Big Bang we will have some idea of the conditions before for it to have happened. It's no more a mystery than an eternal god creating a universe somewhere in eternity, over billions of years, when he could have done it at the snap of his godly fingers. Perhaps he was a bit hasty in putting man on an illmade, unstable world which, in various ways, kills those he created.
     
  10. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Evolution of man has been deduced, modeled and presented as fact. But it can't be proven as there is no eyewitness of a man evolving. Neither can it be produced or reproduced. It's just a paper monkey. So one cannot know that the theory of the evolution of man is true. I personally know from Gods spirit that he lives. So for me I have proof of God, but no proof of evolution. And fwiw, I also have a birth certificate. In fact, the entire history of mankind shows no evolution. Only people being born, living and dying as men. If you evolutionists love facts so much, then why do you deny the factual evidence of the entirety of mans existence, to dabble in the time before time. It's like looking afar and ignoring/tripping over what's right in front of you. Even if in considering that I am not evolved enough to comprehend evolution. It doesn't address the fact to me that God is real. That is my benchmark in that it is the truest thing I know. From my perspective, the evolution of man is a creation of man, for the want of identity. It might even be considered a mental illness, like a man who identifies as a woman so greatly that he believes himself, and is lost in his delusion.
     
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  11. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    You don’t need eyewitnesses to prove something.
    It is called the “Theory of Evolution” for a reason. But to understand that you first have to understand what theory means in a scientific context.

    A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment. In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.

    Evolution, like all other science, falls under what I call “Tyson’s Rule”

    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  12. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    TANSTAAFL!
     
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    A consequence is not automatically a cost.
     
  14. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same might be said of your 'experience'. A psychiatrist/psychologist would tell you that you accepted your experience because you had a need - whether you realised it or not.
     
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  15. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Point taken. But I have proof across the board of my being, spiritual, intellectual, in heart, body, mind and soul. I also have cognizance, recognition, and remembrance. Evolution is like an empty story of things that never were. Mine if of an eternal God, a heavenly Father, not an animal spirit.
     
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  16. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've no doubt the Mohammed would claim the same. After all he was visited by angelic beings who revealed holy secrets to him. Rather like Joseph Smith.
     
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  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Talk is cheap. But the truth is a gem. Your reasoning is akin to broad sale bigotry for the lazy sake of convenience. And psychiatrists would support my knowledge of God over your stated fallacy that there is no God. This is because mine is possible to know while yours is not to say or believe. Therefore the delusion is yours, and the victory is Gods by way of reason.
     
  18. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    My disagreement with non-believing secular scientists is they believe everything will eventually be explained by physical examination of the material part of our existence. They are obsessed with the how of our world but not the why. I see them as toddlers playing with their toys, taking them apart and putting them back together to see how they work. Eventually most children move on to the why of their world as well as the how.

    In my opinion, the question of why is more important than the question of how. Their are a lot of Christian scientists who recognize that science is a power tool but isn't capable of understanding even half of what man needs to know for our full human experience.
     
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  19. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This study indicated that psychiatrists continue to be less religious than nonpsychiatrist physicians. Historic tensions between psychiatry and religion may continue to shape the interaction between the two realms. However, psychiatrists and other physicians should work to see that such tensions do not unduly compromise patients’ opportunities to receive appropriate spiritual or psychiatric care. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2867459/

    There is a difference between spirituality and religion. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/traversing-the-inner-terrain/201912/religion-vs-spirituality
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!

    What do you have to say about our human predilection for homeopathy?
     
  21. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's crazy. It's like saying to claim to be God is made true by the claim. The theory of evolution isn't provable. There is zero proof that man evolved or was ever anything but man. And all the proof in the world that man is all that man has ever been.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, science is designed for exploring how this universe works.

    That's not an obsession, it is simply what science is useful for doing. There are plenty of scientists who have serious beliefs in various religions. They follow the design of science when working on issues of how this universe works.

    You shouldn't be judging science as a tool for exploring the supernatural.

    It would be equally ridiculous to judge some religion on how well it describes how our physical universe works.
     
  23. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Zero proof? Do you have a degree in evolutionary biology to be able to make that claim? Do you have ANY degree in biology.
    Our entire modern medical system is built on the truth of evolution.
     
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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Proof doesn't play an important role in the natural sciences for very good reason. Perhaps the best way of seeing that is to note that math DOES have proof. But, it does so because the systems in question are fully defined. In the natural sciences, we have situations like Newton faced. He had no idea that relativistic speed would affect his physics. So, his physics is still used in almost everything we do, but we know that when we're talking about systems such as GPS satellites, telescopes, etc., we have to move to Einstein's more global model of how the universe works.

    This is a constant factor in science today - there can be factors that nobody was aware of requiring consideration. Thus, there can't be proof.

    As for human development, evolution is a foundation of all biology because of it's performance. Nobody has proven it false (science depends on proof of falsity a lot). And, it has been highly useful in predicting outcomes throughout biology.

    We can see the concrete evidence of human evolution through various means.
     
  25. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    My wife has a PhD in biology. I've share this thread with her for laughs. She used to teach. Loony creationist students were part of the reason she quit.
     
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