Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by zacariah88, Feb 22, 2023.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Over the last 20k years, humans have lost about one tennis ball sized hunk of brain. In that time, we've seen the advent of blue eyes and a decrease in the ability of adults to digest milk due to absence of the required chemicals.

    Human genetics and preserved human remains have clearly shown more significant development over larger time periods.

    The idea that humans are a static life form is proven to be false. And, the changes are explainable by evolution - not any other proposed means.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  2. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    We don't even know if there is a "why" question let alone what the answer might be if there even is such a question.
     
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  3. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Might as well tell her to return the degree. Injeun has declared that there is zero proof for evolution. Your wife must feel like a complete idiot about now.
     
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  4. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    How very open-minded of her.
     
  5. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Should an astronomy professor be "open-minded" to flat earthers trying to hijack their classroom?
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The factor that is missing from religion is that it has no methodology for proof or disproof.

    In colloquial discourse, that's what people actually mean when they suggest a system of belief is a religion.

    That's what Christianity claims, as they state that their god must be accepted on faith alone - a true statement.

    If religion had a means of exploring "why", the very first steps would be in figuring out decision making criteria. Otherwise, all one gets is many thousands of religions that can only say, "trust me, because I'm right and you are wrong."

    And, that isn't "exploring why".
     
  7. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Someone with a PhD IS open minded. All open minded means is that, if given enough evidence, they are willing to change their mind on a subject. It doesn't mean they have to give credence to any crackpot idea that comes along.
    Are you willing to do the same?
    Someone with a PhD has seen a LOT of evidence.
     
  8. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    The limited subset of knowledge you recognize as evidence. Open minded? I think not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  9. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone decides what they consider evidence and what they do not.
    How do you decide?
     
  10. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    My relationship with God and His revealed knowledge.
     
  11. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    For which there is no evidence.
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, the point is that you don't have anything that competes with that.

    You have your belief. You take it on faith. I'm not opposed to that.
     
  13. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Not the kind of evidence you limit yourself to.
     
  14. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The same can be said about my relationship with Goddess and Her revealed knowledge.
     
  15. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    OK. run with that.
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    We need to recognize that there are large numbers of religions today, many with gods and some without gods. And, human history includes large numbers of other religious variations.

    None of these have methods of validation.

    It was an incredibly important move for there to be a line drawn between religion and government.
     
  17. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me for limiting myself to reality.
     
  18. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Like Aarons rod which swallowed the rods of the Pharaoh's wise men, magicians, and sorcerers. The peoples gods may be equal in freedom, but they aren't the God of freedom. So we endeavor to be just, not only to his pleasure, but for his favor, that his judgments don't come rightfully down against us. The whole world is his to judge. It is not our people or nation that is great, but the God over us who bestows our liberty and equality, who bears our shortcomings and pleads his cause to our betterment. And though we come and go thru the generations, yet he remains.
     
  19. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    Your limited understanding of reality.
     
  20. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    I agree there needs to be a separation between government and religion, but not a war.
     
  21. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we are all limited to the same understanding of reality.
    Thinking you have knowledge or understanding beyond reality is called "delusion"
     
  22. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I most certainly believe we have free will, and if one subscribes to the thinking of William of Ockham and others one believes that God has free will, too.

    As for being "biblical", both sides of the argument point to the Bible to support their positions.

    And as WillReadmore correctly pointed out, this question (for the most part) concerns Free Will vs. Determinism, and if you're interested we've discussed this before:

    Erasmus and Luther, Free vs. Unfree Will
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/erasmus-and-luther-free-vs-unfree-will.593173/

    Sola fide
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/sola-fide.603961/
     
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  23. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what is reality? What we perceive?

    Having studied how limited our perceptual faculties are I wouldn't be so certain (or arrogant) to dismiss what mswan calls our "understanding of reality".
     
  24. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How witchcraft and magic come into the discussion I don't know. I thought we were past that idea. Fairy stories went out of fashion long ago.
    13 billions years to create a universe. 9 billion years later the earth is formed from the debris of space. 4 billiion years after its creation man appears. 13 billion years - when God could have done it all at the flick of a godly finger.

    The universe isn't stable with planets/galaxies colliding, rogue planets, black holes consuming everything coming near them and suns going nova, spewing out gasses etc. The earth isn't stable with volcanos, earthquakes, tsunamis destroying lands and people.
    Surely any supreme being could have done a better job for his dearly loved creation?

    We have free will. We can chose to live as directed or disobey and suffer the consequences. It is our choice. We can obey the rules for own good - or reject them. If we choose to commit murder we also 'choose' the punishment which is part of the package. The way we treat our bodies is our own choice. Life is full of choices and we decide which path to chose. Free will is making a choice, taking decisions on questions/situations put before us..
     
  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    This life is probationary. You want eternal life, perfection and peace now. Or else you say such a quest is vain and mythical to believe or have faith in such a God and finality. Were you God, you would destroy it all and begin anew, and do it right. But how are men to be enlarged without free choice and opposition. And how is that accomplished without faith and alteration of ones own behavior. There is a reason that Jesus said we must be reborn of spirit and water to see heaven. But how can that be if you reject the very concept. Ironically, it is that necessary newness or rightness which you preach without saying. Jesus Christ came to save us from our sins, not in our sins. Owing to individual free choice, then it is a personal matter. Otherwise, what has God to gather from us into his storehouse but mediocrity and bitterness. We are important to him. He loves us. And he wants us to be like him, to be enlarged in grace and truth and understanding, that we might be with him at his table, to see as he sees, and love as he loves.
     
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