Does the cost of the war in Ukraine exceed the benefits?

To defeat the invading forces and recapture their occupied land. Sorry, were you under the impression that the war in Ukraine was intended to have benefits for you?

Not really. I came about at the end of a long period of Russia trying to limit the true independence of Ukraine (as it has with several other former Soviet states). That independence would naturally include the freedom to request membership of NATO, though they'd only do that if they felt Russia posed a military thread to them. The main tipping point was more about the potential of joining the EU than NATO.

Yet Russia wanted to keep all their "scary weapons" on the Ukrainian border.

Can any war really said to be "worth" the lives lost as a result? If Russia occupied Alaska though, would you be fine with the US government not taking any military action to retake it?

 

He doesn't. Does he have enough dumb artillery shells to kill a crap load of Ukrainians? Yes. Does he have the stuff to take on NATO? No. Not even close and after what he has seen of his army's performance in the Ukraine he knows it.

 

None the less, Putin did publicly declare that his invasion of Ukraine was just the first step inhis ambition toring the Iron Curtain back down.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/11/russi...ext-reminding-us-why-we-need-to-back-ukraine/

 

He does not have to take on NATO. There is a long list of eastern European countries not in NATO.

 

Russia has complained repeatedly about the US breaking it's promise not to expand one inch
to the East. The US then stated that the promise was not in writing, the shown the promise in
writing the US then moved to more solid ground and pointed out that the document had not
been signed. Who said the US has too many lawyers?

 

This is the back drop behind the attitude in Russia, the repeated expansion
Eastward:

 

But Poland is next on his shopping list.

 

'Today' in the picture was about two years ago.

That is an overall long-term problem, but the trigger that led to
Russia moving forces in was the bombardment of Donetsk by
the Kyiv controlled Ukrainian Armed Forces, not necessarily
all of them, but the Azov Battalion as they are usually referred to.

 

Link any of that.

 

Do you ever link to proof or are you just spouting off?

 

IMO, you've been brainwashed by government propaganda of the West. The 'West' is 20% of the world's population. Once you get out of the western bubble of fake news, people tend to know who the rouge states really are.

I was once a brainwashed fool as well, but since I've traveled to over 30 countries, including Russia and China, my garbage politicians, MIC and deep state will fool me no more.

The Russian economy is doing better than the US economy. You need to ask yourself how is that possible after all your government has told you.

 

He's not spouting off, he's informing you of the truth. It's not his fault you are too lazy to find the information yourself.

If you know anything about the history of Poland and Russia, then you'd know that Putin has absolutely no desire to deal with those historic feudal *******s.

See above.

 

We shall agree to disagree. If I say any more, I will be censored.

 

They are HIS claims to PROVE.

I know Putin has all but broken his pick in Ukraine. I know I watched HIM start the war. I know I’ve never heard yangs “CLAIMS” before.

See above.

 

The war started in 2014. Catch up.

 

That's cool. I suggest you get a passport/visa and see the world for yourself first hand. You will be surprised.

 

“I know I watched Putin start the war”.

I’m all caught up. If you’re waiting on me you’re WAY behind.

 

The distraction of pouring time, money, and effort into Ukraine is foolish. No matter how much money we spend, the outcome is likely going to be the same: A negotiated settlement with Ukraine losing territory. The war can last 2 more years or twenty, and that will still be the outcome.

So while we waste time on Russia being our enemy of choice, our real threat and enemy, China, seems to have carte blanche. They've sent some 37,000 illegals during Biden's insane open borders to do who knows what. But Russia is the more fun enemy (for psychological and political reasons) and so we fiddle with a fake enemy while ignoring the real one.

 

I don’t need to use my passport or waste my money on trips to hell where Putin is using drones to kill civilians. Putin is the aggressor. If you support him, I hope that you will be rewarded when he wins.

As for me, I won’t be surprised if Putin ignites World War III by pulling NATO into the conflict, As I wrote before, your “champion” is a Napoleon, Hitler and Stalin want to be. You state that Putin was not a fan of Lenin. Neither was Stalin. It’s long been rumored that Stalin poisoned Lenin to take control of the Soviet Government.

 

And almost all of them are already clearly in Russias corner Like Beloruss. The Baltic states Nato Finland and Sweden just joined. Not sure Hungary and the two halves of the former Czechoslovakia. So who are you talking about? Bulgaria? The Balkan beehive??? I don't think even Putin is that Masochistic?

 

Amd it is a NATO member. The one thing his adventure in the Ukraine has shown him is that his odds of winning directly against NATO is about the same as his chances of Flying to Bahrain by flapping his arms really hard.

 

You must be confusing Russia with the zionists in israel.

Can't get away from the ad homs because you've lost the argument, eh? Funny guy, you....a regular comedian! Putin is 'pulling' NATO into a conflict?! Oh yeah...sure...

 

Russia will probably keep the break-away Russian-speaking Ukrainian provinces, and Crimea, at the end of this conflict.

Perhaps even the two other oblasts (provinces) in the east (Zaporizhia and Kherson), which give Russia connecting territory to the Crimean peninsula, that is a likely possibility.

 

The problem John is that BRICS surpassed G7 in GDP in 2023. Worse the trend lines heavily favor BRICS. If America was truly worried about the expansion of Russia, it would be all hands on deck to return manufacturing/engineering to America. That is not happening. What is happening all over across America is corporations moving engineering overseas. My own company is doing it (India and China). When I retire, it is pretty clear that my job will be replaced with Indians. We have lost a colossal amount of institutional manufacturing knowledge in the past two decades. We are now losing institutional engineering knowledge. By cutting Russia off from the G7 and into the arms of BRICS, we are forcing them to improve their own engineering/manufacturing knowledge and to invest in the engineering/manufacturing knowledge of BRICS.

In the early 20th century, America really did not have a military competitive with the Europeans. It was however a manufacturing colossus. When war happened, America was easily able to translate that manufacturing supremacy into hard military power. NATO is in the exact position Europe was in over a century ago and BRICS are the America of over a century ago. Like it or not, BRICS has an order of magnitude more manufacturing capability and ultimately an order of magnitude more military capacity.

We speak of rogue states like China while at the same time, nearly everything that we purchase is built in China. If China is rogue state, it should be an easy task for the American government to ban all imports from China. It may happen still but when it does the affect on every American's way of life will be significant. We have become completely reliant on rogue states for our way of life.

I sincerely believe Putin has no interest in being a new Stalin. Russia has spoken about Ukraine being their red line for decades. They telegraphed this very clearly and many previous Western diplomats acknowledged that attempting to bring Ukraine into NATO would result in war. The same thing would happen if China attempted to form a military alliance with Mexico against America and started militarizing them. If I am wrong and Russia invaded Poland, then I would support American intervention.

 

You seem to have forgotten that Russia invaded Ukraine. "All they wanted" was Ukraine. Should we support the war financially? No. We should never give taxpayer money to another country for any reason. Even children will tell you that you can't buy friendship.