Donald Trump indicted on 7 counts in classified documents probe

Bill Clinton did not have classified material. He didn't even have Presidential Records. The Judicial Watch vs. NARA case that all the conservatives are referring to actually says the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they are claiming.

 

Hello. You know I really am stupid. I have no awareness of the following:

1-the 49-page indictment against former President Donald Trump accuses Trump of violating seven different federal laws with the 37 separate charges;

2-if Trump were handed the maximum penalty for each count and the judge ordered the penalties to be served consecutively, Trump would be looking at 400 years in prison and would be subject to a fine of $9,250,000. Given his age any sentence of jail at this time could be a death sentence for him given his health; (oh deary me)

3- On counts 1 to 31, Trump faces a maximum punishment of 10 years in prison, a maximum supervised release period of three years and a $250,000 fine for each count of willful retention of national defense information;

4-under the laws he has been charged with violating under counts 1 to 32- the information he had didn't have to be classified to be said to be illegally retained and he stated he had this information repeatedly on public domain but claims since it was "declassified" by him before he left office he would keep it after he left office which is not a defence to what he did as it is not relevant whether they were classified or not, only if he had them-as well he as admitted after he said the above as his initial defence that he never declassified said documents but kept them because he had no time to sort out his socks from them or he pretended to refer to them but never had them when he referred to them to his staff in detail while giggling and calling them cool;

5- I also am really really stupid and do not know:

a-on counts 32-36, Trump faces on each count individually a maximum punishment of 20 years in prison, a maximum supervised release period of three years and a $250,000 fine;.

b- on Count 37, Trump faces a maximum punishment of five years in prison, a maximum supervised release period of three years, and a $250,000 fine for the false statements and representations charge.

6-I am too stupid to understand each charge is a different count because each count is for a separate action not the same action;

7-I am too stupid to understand that it is perjury to state under oath in an affidavit you have no documents and then get caught with documents after you said you no longer had them and this is called obstructing justice;

8-I am so stupid I believe it is not stupid to claim I lied and kept documents and misled the DOJ because I had no time to remove my personal items from the boxes and would mix my personal items with top secret documents;

9-I am so stupid I think returning an empty box with the label top secret would not trigger any concern;

10-I am so stupid I am as stupid as Trump admitting he had documents he claimed he didn't and then claim he used psychic powers to make them declassified but he never produced in a memo to ANYONE he made a standing order to declassify the documents;

11-I am too stupid to understand his admitting on tape he know the documents he was referring to were classified and he could NOT declassify them shows he did nothing wrong even though they completely contradicted his claim he declassified them;

12-I am as stupid as Trump to think after all the contradictions he stated indicating everything he said was false, that to make that all go away and prove his innocence all he has do to:
a-is say even though he leaked sensitive military intelligence to non classified people ridiculing his military
that is ok because that is acceptable behaviour and the standard one expects of a sitting President given sensitive material;
b-further to A, he was just engaging in bravado talk and like claiming he could grab people's ******* and force himself on them sexually hey now its just bravado come on;
c-further to be he was simply shuffling KFC boxes;
d-and this is the final key to my stupidity, I am so stupid I do not think before Trump was charged the DOJ would never have spoken to and obtained first hand evidence from those he showed the military contingency plan to because the DOJ is as stupid as me.

Also can I say I don't read laws, do not understand what leaking sensitive information might trigger and think when someone is sued for defamation successfully he should repeat the same defamatory comments again in public that got him sued and better still file a defamation suit against someone for proving what he said was defamatory because when you prove someone defamed you that is defamation, Yes that is how stupid I am.

No wait, you know how stupid I am? I think when I have sex with someone and want to hide it from my wife, I pay that person I had sex with, a cheque on my election account, and then think I can argue that is an election expense.

Also I am so so stupid I think its perfectly normal for a President during an election to tell a foreign leader facing invasion by Russia, I won't help them if they don't find dirt on my political opponent.

Oh wait, I also forgot because I am so stupid to say hey now I really really am stupid because I think its quite good for a President to have borrowed and never paid back hundreds of millions of capital from the Russian mob to resurrect his bankrupt businesses and may I say as well; i- never be influenced or compromised by them and wait; ii- meet with them during an election to get dirty on a political opponent; and finally iii-think it makes him a good business man (but hey I am so stupid I think he's cool because he had a tv show and his own jet and charged a royalty fee for putting his name on cheap made in China products while claiming he is tough on China and I see nothing wrong in his son in law days before he left office accepting 2 billion from the Saudi Arabian leader when that son in law's sole business experience was one failed real estate deal in New York City as well as laundering his father's illegally obtained funds.

Oh but wait I am also so stupid I think a President is a great businessman when he fails to disclose and pay his fair share of taxes, ridicules a military officer with permanent torture injuries as being a loser, dodging the draft and bragging about it, calling right wing supremacists good people.

Yep that's me.

Dumb. Dumb as a block of ice. Wait that was stupid. Ice doesn't think. Oh yah me neither.

Buh bye.

 

The conversations he had, that he alone taped, and put in his sock drawer.

 

How do you know Bill didn't have classified information in his conversations?

 

If Trump decides they are his battle plans, they are his if he was CiC when they were made. Biden could decide otherwise.

 

Not hardly...... you can't have it both ways...

Judge Jackson in 2012 defines Trump gets to determine what is personal and what he keeps...

The reason they doesn't prosecute presidents for mere possession of documents is....
This was decided already in 2012 ... so anything they think they have on him is only a political hack job..
the judge ruled Clinton could keep any records he wants... so can Trump... Biden was only a VP
Judge Amy Jackson ruled in 2012 that a president's discretion to declare records "personal" is far-reaching and mostly unchallengeable.

https://justthenews.com/politics-po...-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact
https://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-co.../JW-v-NARA-Clinton-Tapes-transcript-01834.pdf
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1560234754292813827
https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/judicial-watch-inc-v-890793772
https://www.docketbird.com/court-do...-on-3-1-2012-lcabj2/dcd-1:2010-cv-01834-00013

 

No documents, just an interview tour with state controlled media with the objective of smearing the sitting POTUS as a warmonger.

 

So you don't see the adverse impact on the ability to make a war plan if, as one is devising the plan, one is aware that the plan could be made public in the future?

 

Can you please read what it says. Trump can in fact identify what are personal items or Presidential items when he WAS President. After he leaves he can request the National Archives consider certain things personal and give them to him, nothing else.

More to the point your comments make zero sense. No one is claiming Trump can;'t have his personal items. He admits he made zero effort to identify them because he was too busy and this is why he then lied in his affidavit that he had no more documents which is what he is arguing? How does that make sense? How also does what you say make any relevance? Trump has admitted to taking NON personal items he knew were NOT classified and more importantly his violation of discussing what was in the Iran military contingency plan is not determined a violation because of its type of classification.

Can you please take the time to find out what he has been charged with and why.

None of your comments apply to why he was charged. In fact what you are stating is painful in its lack of materiality. Let us say he was worried about personal items-why would he not just tell the National Achives? Why would he instead lie in an affidavit he had no more documents? His excuse he had no time to remove his personal items does not excuse his lying in an affidavit let alone his discussing a top secret military contingency plan to non classified people once he left office.

Can you please make an effort to try understand what in fact Trump did and what he was charged with. His personal items are not relevant at all to the behaviour he is accused of.

 

It was TFG who disseminated the war plan to his aides, NOT Milley. I honestly don't understand why you would classify his action in this as treasonous.

Milley had a plan kept current. when TFG wanted to see it, Milley gave the plan to him. TFG was his boss after all. Any misuse of that document was TFG's alone.

 

Hence part of why Trump is being condemned.

 

NO.

The 2012 decision from Judge Jackson is the "Judicial Watch vs. NARA" case. It is saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are claiming.

The Presidential Records Act is VERY clear on what is a Presidential Record. If the document in question meets the criteria of a Presidential Record then it IS a Presidential Record and not a Personal Record.

ONLY when the record in question does NOT meet the criteria of a Presidential Record (and ONLY then) does a President then have discretion to declare it a Personal record and NARA does not have the authority to 2nd guess that decision.

The case in question. Bill Clinton had recorded interviews with a biographer for the purposes of writing Clinton's biography. Since these recordings did not meet the criteria of a Presidential Record Bill Clinton then had discretion to classify them as Personal Records, which he did. Years after Clinton had left office Judicial Watch, by a FOIA request, wanted access to those recordings. NARA responded that they did not have them because Clinton had kept them. Judicial Watch sued demanding that NARA get the recordings from Clinton by declaring them Presidential Records.

Judge Jackson rejected Judicial Watch's request by saying that NARA had no authority to declare them Presidential Records. They did not meet the definition/criteria of Presidential Records as set out in the Presidential Records Act and Clinton had classified them as Personal.

 

Several documents were retrieved.

 

No they're not 'his plans' he did not make them nor does he own them. Those plans are the property of the DoD, not TFG.

It's kinda like the industrial sector, your company owns any patents you develop on company time. The DoD owns all war plans developed by US employees. Period.

 

Even if they did, the mere fact that it MIGHT have "classified information" does not automatically make it a Presidential Record.

Read the PRA and how it defines "Presidential Record" and then get back to us and tell us how these tapes fall under that definition.

 

Really? Since when have you had access to the contents of those tapes? What idiot would discuss classified info over the phone when he knows it's being recorded? That's Abu Ghraib levels of stoopid right there. Right up there with Smollet paying the guys who supposedly beat him up with a check.

Oops, it seems TFG did attempt to commit a crime over the phone when he tried to coerce the GA Secretary of State into giving him 10k+ more votes.

 

That's just not so. He wouldn't be allowed to keep documents that already belonged to NARA. By your logic he could claim the White House and its contents belonged to him. And he could move it ti Mar-a-Lago. The ruling you reference never gave TFG carte blanche.

 

The notion that a former POTUS (especially one with a cultish following among around 25%+ of the American public and more so one with Trump's personal and political disposition) can be sent to prison seems (from practical point of view) rather far-fetched:

1. which prison can accommodate such a figure without the prison being turned into a circus or even into Trump's personal fiefdom?
2. how could Trump, already serving at that point what amount's to a life sentence, be deterred from blabbing about all sorts of genuine secrets not mention a hundred other tales he can spin as secrets he is divulging while he holds court in prison?
3. regardless of the evidence, which jury would ever reach a unanimous verdict on the guilt or innocence of Trump in the first place?

Trump knows instinctively that he is basically above any notion of the law and the only judge and jury he needs to cater to is his cult and base.

 

What's wrong with slapping an ankle monitor on him and confining him to one of the smaller condos he owns? Not an estate, a one bedroom condo, knock out the interior walls and replace them with bars. ADX Florence in Colorado is another option - basically solitary confinement. If the US prison system could deal with Al Capone, it can deal with TFG.

As to TFG running the prison, felons are not known for civic virtue. They are unlikely to join the orange gang unless there is an immediate benefit to them. I would think there'd be far more face to be gained from killing him than benefits he could provide.

I don't think the jury is a real problem. I honestly don't think there are many people who would put their political convictions above their civic duty. Those that would mostly weed themselves out of jury duty in the first place.

 

It was conversations with a reporter. Nothing classified. It was considered personal, because it wasn’t any agency official business. This is really easy to understand.

 

So, if I'm POTUS, and I want to develop a hypothetical war plan to be ready for some contingency, how much of what I say and write during brainstorming, drafting, etc., is subject to scrutiny by some future official, administration, or public (as we see in this case, the existence of a war plan was made public)?

Wouldn't I be more willing to ask generals and experts dumb questions, or suggest actions that will kill many people if I knew I had the ability to say, "Nothing said here leaves this room"?

By removing Trump's discretion as to what documents are his, prosecutor Jack is establishing a precedent that will inhibit the Chief Executive's ability to plan and make decisions on ANYTHING, not just war plans.

Congress has no authority to hold the POTUS accountable for documents, notes, etc., that were used to plan Executive duties. Again, the judge should throw this case out immediately and chastise prosecutor Jack.

 

How many hours of tapes did Clinton order his staff to record for him, and who was he speaking with? Just reporters huh? How does anyone besides Bill Clinton know what's on those tapes?

 

Clinton taped conversations with world leaders, did he not? The point is you don't know what's on those tapes, and neither does anyone else, because the law of the land says Bill Clinton had the discretion to keep them, and a judge affirmed that in the sock drawer case.

 

Who said they belong to NARA? How does the Archivist have more authority than the POTUS?

 

The law. The National Archives and Records Administration takes care of important records. I'm unaware of the precise mechanism, but the clue is in the name.

TFG wasn't POTUS when he took the files. If he were, he wouldn't have left the White house.