Education that every child needs

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FatBack, May 26, 2023.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We should start teaching children as young as possible to identify what a gun is and to go and get an adult as quickly as possible if they see another child playing with one.

    This should start on day one in public schools.

    The next thing that children should be taught is to never put your finger on a trigger unless you intend to shoot it and to assume that every gun is always loaded.

    Surely this is something that anyone of any political stripe could get behind.


    If children do not know what a gun is they are far more likely to pick it up and have an accidental shooting.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
    Jolly Penguin and Rampart like this.
  2. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I had, actually, been intending to reply to your putting forth this idea, in our conversation of another thread, but wanted to take some time with my response. I had been about posted-out, by the point in our conversation, when I'd got to it. I also have been experiencing an illness, possibly Covid, which was at its worst yesterday, when you'd written this. I'm not going to be able to give the fullest of replies, right now, but hopefully this will suffice, for the time being.
    Here is the fuller description of your idea, as you'd expressed it, to me:

    While I agree with you, that this would be sensible, to teach children all these things-- what is not sensible, is to believe that it would ever be agreeable to a large number of parents, for their kids to go out at recess and have the teacher shoot a watermelon, for the kids' education. Many things that would make sense to learn, are not taught by parents, or in schools. The same way as some parents might object to the teaching of masturbation, or other elements of sex ed-- even though this is practical knowledge, for all student age children-- there would be parents who had "moral concerns," about their kids getting any gun instruction. That would even include, from themselves. And, to be fair, the kids who are most likely to benefit, are the ones whose parents keep guns, in their home.

    So, at this point, I don't see that as a realistically achievable goal. While gun ownership has grown, it is still not as widely embraced as one might assume, from the large number of guns, in circulation; there is a minority of gun enthusiasts, who own large, personal collections. According to the most recent Gallup poll, 32% of Americans are gun owners, while 44% live in households, in which there is a gun present. But there are still plenty of household's which would never want to have a gun, and I'm sure would not want their kids near one, for any reason.


    https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx


     
    Last edited: May 27, 2023
    Rampart and Bowerbird like this.
  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not necessarily talking about an actual demonstration with a gun and a watermelon but just the basic things I first mentioned about teaching kids to identify a gun and go and quickly get an adult if they see another kid playing with one.

    I don't see how anyone could logically be against that.

    I don't believe that qualifies as instruction with a gun. I think it's basically the same thing we teach kids that there are venomous snakes and that they should leave snakes alone.

    And I do hope you feel better and recover soon
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2023
    Rampart likes this.
  4. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the well wishes; I think I've turned the corner-- a lot of coughing, today, but the headache was not as bad.

    Anyway, regardless of whether you can see the logic of it, I don't see how you could not realize that there are lots of parents who would not want their kids going anywhere near a gun-- not even a "prop" gun, on the set of one of parent- appealing, Alec Baldwin's movies. I'd offered the analogy of those who are dead-set against their kids getting any basic sex education-- can you see the "logic" to that? Or how about, the parents who don't want their kids to learn about evolution (or at least, who want the school to present Creationist theory, on the same level)? I would be surprised, in fact, if you had not ever stated, yourself, that some people just "hate guns." And, seeing that most people do not, yet, own guns, it doesn't seem realistic to me, to believe that they would accept the inescapable presence of firearms, in their lives, requiring their kids to become at all familiar with their operation.

    To the contrary, I'm sure that many view it as the responsibility
    of the gun owners, not to leave their weapons, where their kids ever could get a hold of them.
     
    Rampart and Bowerbird like this.
  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But the fact of the matter is.... The toothpaste is out of the tube. Like it or not guns are part of the landscape.

    I should think even the most anti-gun parent would want their child to understand the importance of leaving one alone if they see it.

    It's just a reality that kids are going to see a gun at some point so they might as well know what they are and to leave them alone.

    It goes back to my comparison of the venomous snakes, they exist and they are dangerous so it is best that a kid knows that so that they are not completely off guard when they do eventually encounter one.

    I'm glad you are healing up. I am slowly doing the same thing. Here is my ankle 24 hours ago and I was concerned it may have been infected but there is no discharge and it's not hot.

    Went in to see my doctor today and he agrees that it is likely a rash and no infection or blood clot. I'm keeping a close eye on it. Here is a picture from 24 hours ago it looks better now. The red you see is iodine. Today is 6 weeks since the surgery and the first day that I'm supposed to start gradually walking on it with the walking boot and the crutches.

    There is no pain and only some lingering stiffness since the cast came off a week ago.

    I see him again on the 9th and he said by then I may be ready to wear a shoe again and be done with the walking boot and hopefully back to work soon thereafter

    IMG_20230526_011747_952.jpg
     
  6. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So the right wants to protect the innocence of children by banning historical events that contain racial themes, banning gay character representations, banning biological function discussion — but does want to teach them about guns and their version of a sky being while demanding if they are raped they must have the rapists child.

    What a ****ed up nation that is being created.
     
    Quantum Nerd, Rampart and Bowerbird like this.
  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What a f***** up boatload of straw man.

    Teaching a child what a gun is and that it is dangerous is not the same thing as teaching a child to use a gun or that guns are good.

    It's simply dealing with a fact of reality.
     
    Jolly Penguin and Rampart like this.
  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't we teach children what alcohol is and that they are not supposed to mess with it and the same with tobacco and drugs?

    Does that mean we're promoting the use?
     
    Jolly Penguin likes this.
  9. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know why, you aren't comparing this to my example, of parents who just have illogical, personal beliefs against Sex- Ed. Tell you what: read your quote, above, and replace the word "gun," every time it occurs, with the word "dick." See if that makes the analogy clearer. People's personal beliefs are not always, strictly rational. Yet, we, as a society, generally respect such beliefs.


    Most parents, would not want their kids to get any hands-on experience, with venomous snakes.

    What had led to the cast, in the first place? It had not been at all related to a snake bite, I take it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2023
    Bowerbird and cd8ed like this.
  10. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Let’s discuss guns children, but let us dare not speak of little Susie’s period as jesus frowns upon that.
     
  11. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm sure that there are many parents who simply tell their kids to not touch, and to stay away from any guns. In fact, if they hear that a neighbor, whose kids play with their own kids, has a gun, I'm sure there are many parents who we would address that situation by talking to the neighbor, to make sure that his gun is always locked up. If that is not the case, many would no doubt prohibit their kids from playing at the neighbor's house, anymore.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I see what you are saying and I concur.
    I believe children should receive basic sexual education without necessarily encouraging them to go out and have sex at a young age.

    They should be taught the possible consequences such as STDs and children while they themselves are still a child.

    The presence of firearms and sexuality are both a reality that cannot be avoided as a child grows up.

    If you don't give children some real education about firearms all they will know is what they see on TV and that's not necessarily a good or accurate depiction of reality.

    The ankle is another story. Me and my dirt bike had a little disagreement off-road at about 10 miles an hour on May 20th. I sat around for 3 weeks with it broken and in need of a surgery due to insurance and financial difficulties.
     
  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a very difficult subject and I am not a parent myself, so the only way I can relate my experience is how I was raised around guns as a child.

    My father taught me about guns but my mother and grandmother did not really teach me anything.

    My parents were divorced and I only saw my father on the weekends. I had unsupervised access to guns at a very young age and I used to go out in the woods and blast away at things. They had no idea but no harm ever came of it.

    I had regular access to a 22 rifle and a 16 gauge shotgun and a 38 special police revolver. Looking back it was probably less than ideal.

    But I never hurt myself or anyone else's property with them because fortunately I grew up in a very rural environment and the only thing I might have hurt was a few birds and squirrels and rabbits and some trees in the woods.
     
  14. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,839
    Likes Received:
    32,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Its really strange to hear such a common sense post from you seeing that you support desantis banning any topics on sexuality (but just against groups you don’t like) and periods.

    I guess that’s what hyper partisanship does.
     
    Rampart and Bowerbird like this.
  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you want to see an example of hyperpartisanship..... Just read your post out loud to yourself slowly...

    I don't have to 100% agree with my governor's every action to support him.... That's another one of those hyperpartisanship things that you might take to heart
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2023
    Jolly Penguin likes this.
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    OK let’s look at some research

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178906000048

    Hmmmmmm doesn’t support your hypothesis
     
    Quantum Nerd and DEFinning like this.
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Well, you are not the only one with unrealistic expectations of children
    https://publications.aap.org/pediat...74/They-re-Too-Smart-for-That-Predicting-What
     
  18. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  19. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,725
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, Americans deserve a proper education. :oldman:
     
  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Children in your country should receive the same education because no matter how much you think that the world is made of roses guns will always exist
     
  21. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,725
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    a basic education as in reading and writing would serve Americans better in the long run
     
  22. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,324
    Likes Received:
    48,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I know you're trying to duck the issue and just try to make it some partisan left right American England issue but it's not as simple as that.
     
  23. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,725
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I'm just saying that an education in basic English is a great start in life, I'm not so sure why you're dead against that.
     
  24. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    7,880
    Likes Received:
    7,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    i understand your point, but @FatBack is correct about gun safety.

    sure, gun safety should be passed father to son, but the concepts are very simple and important, and should come from as many directions as possible - teachers, camp counselors, scoutmasters, nearly any trusted adult (and older boys) should be talking about those "eddie eagle" kind of safety concerns.

    about snakes. i was one of those boys who wanted to identify snakes and to tell the poisonous from the non poisonous. the better method, for small boys at least, is to avoid all snakes.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Sorry but is not your hypothesis that education will reduce gunshot injuries in children?

    the AAP (American Academy of Paediatrics) has actually done some impressive research in this tied in with developmental models such as Piaget’s theory of cognitive development.
    https://publications.aap.org/pediat...745.726006140.1685171192-540822525.1685171192
    upload_2023-5-27_17-44-24.png
    https://www.psychologynoteshq.com/piagetstheory/
     
    Rampart likes this.

Share This Page