Electric cars will waste lots and lots of water if they catch fire

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by kazenatsu, Jun 20, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's another disadvantage of electric cars. If one catches on fire, it can be a disaster to put out.

    On April 17, 2021, when firefighters responded to a call at around 9:30 p.m., they came upon a Tesla Model S that had crashed, killing two people, and was now on fire.

    They extinguished it, but then a small flare shot out of the bottom of the charred hulk. Firefighters quickly put out those flames. Not long after, the car reignited for a third time.

    Eight firefighters ultimately spent seven hours putting out the fire. They also used up 28,000 gallons of water - an amount the department normally uses in a month. That same volume of water serves an average American home for nearly two years.

    By comparison, a typical fire involving an internal combustion car can be quickly put out with approximately 300 gallons of water​

    An electric car fire is like 'a trick birthday candle' — and a nightmare for firefighters (msn.com)

    Yes it's true fires are rare. But when an electric car does catch fire, it doesn't sound very eco-friendly.
    Can you imagine, using up enough water that an average home uses in 2 years.

    One wonders whether all the little things like this are really taken into account, when calculating exactly how environmentally friendly these type of new "econ-friendly" alternatives like electric cars are.
     
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  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I think electric cars are a novelty. They've been around since the 1800s they've been available for people to buy all that time it's just very few people want them.

    I think they've gained in popularity recently but they will never take over. Not until they are superior to a conventional vehicle or even a hybrid. The way you do that is increase battery life decrease charging times increase range and pray that more and more people put in charging stations.

    After that power outage in Texas and I was still able to drive in my vehicle that put me off of them.
     
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  3. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Yep, battery life and charging times, and what happens to the old batteries? May be like the current batteries in cars they can salvage some components, or they might end up like TIRES. Here where I live if you have an old tire or two you're literally stuck to a tar baby...we have a "bucket truck" that comes around twice a year and will haul away ANYTHING put out, except TIRES, those they'll leave. So you're left with two choices, A- take it to a tire dealer and PAY them to take it off your hands, or B- haul it to a secluded spot in the country and heave it out, then speed away, the popular option given the number of lonely TIRE cemeteries in my area. The one thing the big brains ALWAYS neglect in their planning; HUMAN NATURE, which, like water, will ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance.
     
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't have anything against electric cars per se. If people want them they will buy them and by all means there should be those options. At this stage in development I don't. For me that might change who knows.

    Best way to get rid of tires is burning them. But be prepared they burn for a long time. I remember the guys that used to clear land where I used to work they were cut down all the undergrowth and pilot up to burn but they'd always take a few old tires and put under it because they would keep it burning even if it rained.
     
  5. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    You (old) guys are funny. Electric car use is going to explode (pun intended). What is the actual incidence of Tesla electrical fires?

    Fire trucks will adjust and equip the appropriate dowsing materials. Problem solved
     
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  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I like how they keep digging up ancient stories. The technology in this field is streaking ahead
    But it is not just electric cars that use lithium batteries

    upload_2021-7-2_15-25-20.jpeg

    hands up anyone who does not own a device powered by a Lithium battery?
     
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  7. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Or many devices! (to my slight shame)
     
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  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that those who are OPPOSED to GREEN technology NEVER bother to do any actual RESEARCH on the topic first? :eek:

    Anyone with ANY firefighting knowledge at all is well AWARE that fires can be SMOTHERED without using any water?

    https://insideevs.com/news/429647/giant-fire-blanket-cuts-reignition-ev-blazes/

    Every Fire Department can carry these blankets and they can effectively smother an EV battery fire in under an hour WITHOUT any water use at all.

    This fire blanket will ALSO smother a gas fire in an ICE vehicle.

    So this is yet another OP epic failure to denigrate Green options.

    Sad!
     
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  9. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Used tires lack the profitable components that makes them commercially viable for recycling.

    That is NOT the case with Lithium which is in high DEMAND.

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/ba...finally-takes-off-in-north-america-and-europe

    So Lithium batteries are NOT going to end up in burning landfills given that they have RECYCLING VALUE.

    It is possible to REFURBISH used EV batteries by replacing the dead cells.

    Toyota already offer discounts on refurbished EV batteries in Australia and it will only be a matter of time when that that becomes as commonplace industrywide as using refurbished transmissions are today.
     
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The fundamental problem with the EV is that it is a technological step backward.
     
  11. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    As other posters have already stated this isn’t a failing of electric vehicles. The firefighters in the linked story either didn’t have the tools or the training (both?) to deal with this kind of fire. Tesla should be held responsible for providing guidance on how to respond to one of their vehicles catching fire, and if it requires considerable upgrades in equipment they should be on the hook for some of the cost.
     
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  12. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Usually you don't put out an electric fire with water.
     
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  13. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never allow small issues to stop progress. Remove one of the triangles and you extinguish the fire. Below is the proper way to put out a Tesla without emptying the reservoir of all it's water.

    Tesla on fire: How to extinguish an electric car fire (firerescue1.com)
     
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  14. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I posted in another post here the recommended way to put out tesla car fires. More fire departments need to follow those guidelines.
     
  15. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you remove one block of the pyramid, you will successfully extinguish the fire.


    Information about the Fire Triangle/Tetrahedron and Combustion : Firesafe.org.uk
     
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  16. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I am no expert but I was under the impression that you should not use water to put out a fire from a lithiun ion battery. Doesn't lithium and water create hydrogen or something?​
     
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  17. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Can you elaborate on what you mean?
     
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  18. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe you are correct; additionally cars with magnesium engine blocks will likewise be next to impossible to extinguish using water they also create hydrogen as well. Below is a link which you and others might find interesting regarding vehicle fires (it is long, but nonetheless chock full of information).

    It’s NOT Just Another Vehicle Fire! | Fire Engineering
     
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  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And no reason why we cannot repurpose them for grid use https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...-startups-get-serious-about-reusing-batteries

    But that makes too much sense ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  21. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Agreed!

    The naysayers who whined about automobiles replacing horses ignored the dung, flies and broken bones that were commonplace when dealing with large animals in crowded urban areas.

    Can you imagine the mountains of dung and clouds of flies that would be swarming nowadays if they had stopped the progress of the automobile?

    Note too that all the current naysayers are NOT using pen, paper, envelopes and the USPO to send their griping into their local newspaper. They are happily using their computers and the internet that have made those pens and envelopes redundant.

    Whatever downsides there might be with green technology it will be more than offset when the benefits come into play. Just ask those baking under the heat dome if they want that to continue and/or worsen by the ongoing burning of fossil fuels?

    Once it becomes uncomfortable for them personally they will deny their naysaying and INSIST that they were pro green energy all along.

    :roflol:
     
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  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We'll start with limitations on battery technology (see link). But beyond that, limited range and excessive charging times make travel more difficult and less reliable or convenient. Use of heating or air conditioning further degrades performance. And while torque/towing numbers can look impressive, those too are at the expense of range.

    When Mrs. Hays and I can set out for a 600 mile trip in an EV, stop after 200 miles to recharge in five minutes and return to the road, repeat as needed and run heating/air conditioning without diminishing range, I'll reconsider.
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    How about crossing a continent on solar charging alone?
     
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  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Carrying two passengers plus luggage and averaging 65mph? In all weather?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  25. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I will agree that technology isn't advanced enough for the trip you describe. But there is nothing wrong with hybrid technology until the electric technology is developed.
     

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