Even as vaccine numbers rise, Democrats double down on masks

Oh good, you actually DID understand it.

 

LOL That is NOT Self quarantining!

 

Yes I have 1000 gallon gasoline and diesel storage tanks. Deliveries of fuel are 100% zero contact. I have food and all other provisions to last years not months. I have no need to interact with anyone.

I like how you are helping to educate others on how self quarantine works, but why don’t we get back to your disinformation on Covid vaccines. Why did you provide demonstrably false information on the subject of sterilizing immunity even after I explained the concept to you?

Yes, seeing a couple individuals who were also self quarantined is self quarantine. Since you seem very uninformed on the subject here’s how it works. Two individuals self quarantine for 2-3 weeks before and after contact with each other. There is no risk to the interacting individuals or the public. Again, if everyone would have done this, the pandemic would have died out quickly. It’s just how infectious diseases work. It’s sad this has to be explained to you a year into a pandemic but it certainly explains why it’s lasted so long. People like you have NO idea how to stop a pandemic. LOL

It’s funny but also very sad.

 

You cannot keep your stories straight.

 

LOL. All I’ve posted is true. Just because you live in a small boring world doesn’t mean we all do. Of course as I’ve pointed out all you have are fabrications. You can not use the quote function to demonstrate anything you claim.

On the other hand I can use the quote function and quote entire posts of yours in context where you present disinformation in direct conflict with empirical evidence. You provided disinformation about Covid vaccines that will harm people for a long time in the future. You should be ashamed. You should apologize to PF members you misled on the subject of sterilizing immunity even after you were shown your errors. Just like Fauci, you present disinformation, harm others, and go on like nothing happened. As long as I’m around PF I will point out such despicable behavior—not in an attempt to change that behavior, but to warn others of the danger of listening to science deniers like you and Fauci.

 

I posted your actual quotes. You cannot keep your stories straight

 

You have not posted my quotes. You have fabricated things I’ve never said and taken words out of context. PF has quote functions for a reason. So people like me are taken seriously and people like you are shown to be nothing more than ankle biters looking for attention. Thanks for solidifying where we both stand.

Now, care to address your spreading of disinformation about Covid vaccines on PF?

 

557 wrote on masks "I think those more negative implications outweigh their protective qualities."
557 wrote "However, from what little community use I’ve observed, it’s clear masks are not having a positive effect."
557 wrote "I am the most pro mask PF member"

557 cannot keep his stories straight

 

And finally:
I wrote "No one ever said that a vaccine will prevent people from being infected...A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection"

557 wrote "Vaccines don’t prevent infection. Where did you hear that? Certainly not from “science”

557 wrote "Of course no vaccine is guaranteed to prevent infection"

557 cannot keep his stories straight

 

Absolutely. And yesterday I linked to direct evidence of mask wearing prompting an individual to take risks they would not without a mask—actually statistically increasing their odds of being infected.

Absolutely. I provided evidence to back that claim. That’s why you won’t use the quote function. Your argument is based on fabrication, taking words out of context, and omitting supporting information.

Absolutely I am. When Fauci lies and says masks are ineffective I provide peer reviewed meta analysis that masks can be effective.

When Fauci lies and says homemade cloth masks are just as good as N95 type masks I point out they are not.

When the CDC, Fauci, and the WHO tell you to wear masks in places where risk of infection is low (even nonexistent), I recommend utilizing masks where risk of infection is at least 6 times greater.

When Fauci and others lie about there still being a shortage of domestic N95 masks I post links showing there are millions for sale and links to retailers selling them basically at cost.

I’ve never tried to dissuade anyone from wearing a mask—unlike your boy Fauci who is directly responsible for people today refusing to consider masks. I’ve told the truth based on empirical evidence while those who’s authority you appeal to lie to you repeatedly.

Everything I post on Covid is based on empirical evidence. Unlike what you post.

 

And your statement is false because it ignores sterilizing immunity resulting from neutralizing antibodies. People who understand immunology all say vaccines can and often do prevent infection. Only science deniers like you make statements like the above.

Vaccines are known to prevent infections. It’s called sterilizing immunity. It’s well documented in science.
[QUUOTE]
557 wrote "Of course no vaccine is guaranteed to prevent infection"
[/QUOTE]
That is absolutely true. No vaccine is 100% effective at preventing infection or disease. None.

557 posts are always based on empirical evidence. T&J has no understanding of biology, virology, immunology or epidemiology. Therefore he’s constantly confused and misled by dishonest authorities he appeals to.

 

More nonsense whitewashing gibberish from 557.

Why don't you explain how sterilising immunity is NOT related to "A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection", you know, the statement that I wrote that you say is false?

Also LOL at the person who doesn't understand the definition of "prevent"! That person probably also thinks that something can be "almost unique". As a big clue, prevent means stop, 100%, not 90%, not 98%. More LOL at you now writing "can and often do prevent" instead of your previous (100%) prevent! No one ever said that a vaccine will prevent, ( you know 100% stop - the definition of prevent), people from being infected

Now I'll wait for the wall of gibberish waffling to whitewash your words

 

I’ve explained it to you numerous times. Sterilizing immunity involves neutralizing antibodies which render virus incapable of infecting the cells of the immune individual. There is no infection to fight because the infection never happens.

You and many others have been claiming Covid vaccines do not prevent infection, only fight it after it occurs. This is false. In the vast majority of cases the high titer of neutralizing antibodies resulting from the vaccine prevent infection from occurring.

Again, only those without knowledge of vaccines or those trying to pull a con claim:

People who understand immunology do say Covid vaccines prevent people from being infected because that is the truth. Just because you have claimed for weeks vaccines don’t prevent infections doesn’t mean others who know what they are talking about claim the same.

 

As expected more nonsense from you!
What do you think gave rise to the production of neutralizing anti bodies? Here let me help you - "A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection". Do you have reading comprehension issues? LOL at you back tracking by writing "vast majority of cases" hoping no one will notice

And two more contradictory statements from you: "There is no infection to fight because the infection never happens" and "In the vast majority of cases the high titer of neutralizing antibodies resulting from the vaccine prevent infection from occurring". "Never" and "vast majority" are mutually exclusive. You just can't keep your stories straight

Get a dictionary and learn the definition of the word "prevent"! Prevent means 100% STOP in 100% of people. "No one ever said that a vaccine will prevent people from being infected", you know 100% stop in 100% of people.

And as you seem incapable of looking up the definition:

Notice the example they give?
"locks won't prevent a determined burglar from getting in"
See the significance? It doesn't say "locks prevent a determined burglar from getting in" Just like a vaccine won't prevent an infection ie it is not a guarantee. Learn the difference

 

You are the one waffling. You said:

“"No one ever said that a vaccine will prevent people from being infected...A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection"

This is demonstrably false. All immunologist say vaccines prevent people from being infected. No immunologists would say a vaccine prevents all vaccinees from being infected. And I have not either. I was very clear that NO vaccine is 100% effective.

Here are the FACTS.
—Covid vaccines provide two types of immunity. Sterilizing immunity and functional immunity

—Covid vaccines in use in the US prevent people from being infected. This is sterilizing immunity (facilitated by the action of neutralizing antibodies) and occurs in approximately 80-95% of vaccinees (depending on the vaccine). These individuals are NOT infected, do NOT shed virus, and are NOT contagious.

—The majority of vaccinees that do not develop the above sterilizing immunity develop functional immunity. These individuals lack neutralizing antibody titers sufficient to render virus incapable of infecting cells of the vaccinee. In these cases memory B cells and memory T cells work to quickly end the infection, doing so much more quickly than an immune system that has not had previous exposure to the antigen. These individuals ARE infected, CAN shed virus (but may not), and CAN infect others (but only if they shed viable virons).

—a very small percentage of vaccinees do not develop sterilizing or functional immunity. We do not know how many.

The above FACTS make this statement patently false.

You claim no one says a vaccine will prevent people being infected. This is false. These vaccines DO prevent infection and honest people say that they do.

You claim that is not how the immune system works. This is false. Neutralizing antibodies DO prevent infection.

You claim the body only responds to being infected. This is false. Individuals with neutralizing antibody titers ARE NOT infected. Their protection is from EXISTING antibodies, not ones produced after infection.

You claim the vaccine pre arms the the immune system with weapons to use against the infection. This is true in the case of the 5-20% of vaccinees with FUNCTIONAL IMMUNITY. In the 80-95% of vaccinees with STERILIZING IMMUNITY this is false because there is no infection. The virus is “incapacitated” BEFORE an infection can occur. The “weapon” of neutralizing antibodies targets virons before any infection occurs.

 

Now if they can just figure out how to stop those shots from causing spontaneous abortions amongst younger women.....

 

Learn the definition of the word "prevent". 90% is not 100%. Ignoring your whitewashing waffle for obvious reasons.

Two mutually exclusive statements from you
1. All immunologist say vaccines prevent people from being infected.
2. No immunologists would say a vaccine prevents all vaccinees from being infected.

"A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection" is correct. I don't care about your anal drivel about whether "the infection" has actually started or not.
Vaccines relatively rarely produce Neutralising antibodies which are part of the category of the "right weapon" .

Do vaccines prevent people from being infected?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/vaccines-faq

https://theconversation.com/coronav...nfection-heres-why-thats-not-a-problem-152204

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...d-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19

https://www.who.int/multi-media/det...rence-on-novel-coronavirus---28-december-2020

Now waiting for your next wall of text that you will write to whitewash your posts

 

They are not mutually exclusive. Both are factual.

Facts are not anal drivel. I know you do not care about facts but I do. Lives depend on being truthful. Lying about how Covid vaccines work is having the negative consequence of people believing there is no point to being vaccinated. We see it here every day and you continue to feed the misinformation stream.

Here is a short list of vaccines that induce sterilizing immunity, not comprehensive.
—Hepatitis A
—HPV
—Measles
—Smallpox
—Oral Polio
—some nasal influenza vaccines
—new single replication viral vector influenza vaccines in development
—Rubella

I’m not particularly interested in what percentage of total vaccines induce sterilizing immunity. That’s your strawman. The fact many do induce sterilizing immunity makes your statements false. Also, the subject here is Covid vaccines. The answer is yes, vaccines prevent people from being infected.

As I’ve been pointing out to you, one must be wary of believing everything you read online or hear from a politician. This is such a case. I just listed several common vaccines that induce sterilizing immunity. One of which is oral polio.

Your source says current poliovirus vaccines don’t prevent infection. Current where? In the US we now only use inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) because risk of exposure is low. In some parts of the world where polio is still rampant oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) is still used. Why? Because it not only protects from severe disease, but induces sterilizing immunity so that transmission of poliovirus is reduced as well as the vaccinee being “protected” from disease. The reason OPV is phased out where polio has been eradicated is because it can cause polio infections when the live virus in the vaccine mutates. In many places now more people are harmed from OPV induced infections than natural poliovirus infections.

So here we have a source that is uninformed on the subject of vaccines and you have been snookered again.

Again, I’m not interested in percentages of vaccines that do or do not induce sterilizing immunity. It’s irrelevant. The fact many do makes your claims false. Just because the mumps component of MMR vaccines doesn’t induce sterilizing immunity has no bearing on Covid vaccines. Also note the date of your link—Feb.3. Since then we have had much data come out showing evidence of sterilizing immunity with Covid vaccines. Here is some of it.
Feb. 18
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.15.21251623v1.full
March 29
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html

March 11
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-r...d-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer

Interesting (but not surprising) that you pick months-old opinions without any data to back them up while I provide actual empirical evidence.

Now you want to go back in time to December 28? Before studies like the ones I’ve provided above were completed? May as well believe SARS-CoV-2 isn’t human to human transmissible like the Chinese told WHO initially. I’ve demonstrated on many occasions here on PF the WHO is not a reliable source of up to date information or advice.

Now facts are whitewash? I thought facts were anal drivel? LOL. Very strange outlook on facts you have with the screen name you have chosen.

In conclusion, your sources from John Hopkins and “the conversation” are misleading (because they infer few vaccines induce sterilizing immunity when many of the most common ones do) and do not address the qualities of the Covid vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity. Your sources on Covid vaccines specifically are very outdated—obsolete in fact. We must accept evidence that exists today, not base our posts on outdated presumptive information.

 

Stop politicizing public hygiene. All you're doing is placing anyone dumb enough to fall for it at elevated risk of contracting COVID-19.

 

I’m afraid you are attempting to shut the door after the horse has left the barn.

That said, plain dishonesty by “authority” and lack of critical thought by the proles has been most responsible for placing almost everyone at elevated risk. Probably the most damaging was/is the idea public hygiene is paramount. Individuals are far more likely to be infected in private settings than public ones, but very little to no mitigation has been recommended in this area. And sadly almost everyone was dumb enough to fall for it.

Add in the public being discouraged from buying readily available domestically produced N95 masks and encouraged to wear inferior cloth masks, and the public buying that advice “hook line and sinker”, and one begins to think Americans got the pandemic they deserve.

If following “science” is now just straight up appeal to authority without any critical thought or adherence to empirical evidence, we better start picking more competent authorities.

But I agree. We need to stop politicizing and start THINKING.

 

The most helpful measures were the shutdowns, I'm sure. Keeping people socially distanced with or without masks is the greatest way to avoid germ transmission. Sadly, it's also the most costly and least popular, and the one a certain former president did the most to undermine, all told.

 

Agree social distancing is key. Not sure why it isn’t instinctive. Or why we were told “six feet is good enough” even after aerosol spread was confirmed. It’s all so bizarre when you compare known principles of epidemiology to what was actually advised and see almost polar opposites in most cases.

What’s so sad is that anyone cares what a president’s opinion is on any of it. We live in a world where any information one desires on virology and epidemiology is at everyone’s fingertips, yet most want to appeal to the authority of politicians and bureaucrats instead of thinking things through and protecting themselves.

 

More anal drivel, irrelevance and wall of text as predicted, in his attempt to white wash his posts.

LOL at 557 statement "I’m not particularly interested in what percentage of total vaccines induce sterilizing immunity." after him writing the false statement "This is true in the case of the 5-20% of vaccinees with FUNCTIONAL IMMUNITY. In the 80-95% of vaccinees with STERILIZING IMMUNITY this is false because there is no infection."
You're not interested because you are wrong. Sterilizing immunity is a rare occurrence with vaccines in general



"The vaccines currently available against SARS-CoV-2 do not induce sterilising immunity (i.e. complete protection from subsequent infection) in everyone that is vaccinated. Transmission may still occur if immune responses triggered following completion of the vaccine course do not sufficiently restrict virus replication in the upper respiratory tract following a breakthrough infection."

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...ction-of-SARS-CoV-2-following-vaccination.pdf

In conclusion:"A vaccine pre-arms the immune system with the right weapon to use against the infection" is correct. I don't care about your anal drivel about whether "the infection" has actually started or not.

 

To everything a purpose, even if only a warning.

 

Already done because they never happened. Seriously, where on Earth are you getting the bull hockey?