Evolution is a Joke PT VII (back by popular demand)

Except the articles I provided.

Flavobacterim (sp?) dealing with mutations is correct, but a phase shift mutation… Do you know what that means? No…? Okay, I’ll tell you. It means that the depending on where the mutation happened, the whole sequence is changed. So, I’ll give you this dealing with your Darwinism vs. Creastionist gibberish. It’s a bunch of crap! Frameshift mutations frequently result in severe genetic diseases such as Tay-Sachs disease. A frameshift mutation is responsible for the disabling of the CCR5 HIV receptor and some types of familial hypercholesterolemia (Lewis, 2005, p. 227-22. Frameshift mutations have also been proposed as a source of biological novelty, as with the alleged creation of nylonase. However, a study by Negoro et al (2006) [1] found that a frameshift mutation was unlikely to have been the cause and that rather a two amino acid substitution in the catalytic cleft of an ancestral esterase amplified Ald-hydrolytic activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frameshift_mutation

I’ll point out now that you have been wrong three times in two days since you seem not to remember when you have been incorrect…

Now, dealing trees with fur, is your pipe dream that mutations hibernate for generations and then Spring into action when conditions are right. Thus, to assume that trees can’t have fur is thrown out the window, because since there is a gene sequence for fur, it could be just “dormant” within trees and when it gets cold enough – PRESTO CHANGO – trees have fur… Want me to quote you AGAIN when you stated that? It’s probably a page back or two…

I know – I know… it’s amazing someone who has so little knowledge dealing with biology is proving your wrong over and over again… Isn’t it…

 

mentaly... way older than you.
physicaly, it depends of the weather.

 

Great... then why don't you go ahead and cut and paste the parts that deal with mutations within start codons and nonexpressed DNA sequences to explain evolutionary complexity. That means the creation of eyeballs on trees and stuff like that...

 

First - it's spelled mentally (only a genius would claim to be intelligent then misspell the word Intelligent and put that along with an inproper sentence - I are two inteligent)

Second - when have you heard anyone over the age of 15 express themselves like you did above? I consider my daughter mature for her age at 15 because I hear the kids at her school and they act kinda like you do with your Peanut Gallery posts infecting this forum like an HIV virus.

Do you think that in meetings they do that? Think that appears in news letters at businesses? Or coworkers converse such juvenile expressions over coffee?

So, again... how old are you? Why I need to know is to understand your mind frame dealing with this subject matter because no educated biologist is going to post something like that...

ever....

 

You must have a short memory. You said:

You said they only end horribly. No, they mostly end in no change to health or development. You said something that no real biologist would ever say. Ever.

Ha, no. I made a mistake that I caught. Nice try, though.

No, you thought they only ended horribly. And I already provided a couple of examples of mutations that benefited the organisms in which they occurred.

It's sad that you have to make up things to argue against. I never said anything like rabbit ears lying in wait to appear. Please try to address statements that I have actually made.

 

This part here:
This is the first evidence for entirely novel human-specific protein-coding genes originating from ancestrally noncoding sequences.

A noncoding DNA sequence doesn't code because it doesn't have a start codon preceding it. For it to then change to a coding sequnce, a mutation must occur to cause a start codon to develop ahead of it. That either means a transposition (type of mutation) of a start codon, a point mutation that changes a triplet sequence into a start codon, or some other type of mutation that creates an ATG sequence ahead of the the noncoding region.

Entirely novel gene. That means not seen anywhere else. From ancestrally noncoding sequences. That means DNA that isn't expressed in ancestor species.

If you were actually a biologist, you would be able to understand this stuff without needing me to explain it.

 

That's not what a frameshift mutation is. The DNA/RNA sequence stays the same (aside from the insertion or deletion that causes the shift). The reading frame changes. There is a complete change to the chain of amino acids that are coded for, but that doesn't appear to be what you were trying to say. See, you don't know anything about mutations.

Please, quote where I said trees have or could develop fur. I never, ever said that. Anywhere.

It is amazing that you keep thrashing around trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

Really... Trying to backtrack on your FAIL? Not happening... I'll recap in a minute.

Dealing with mutations and change, as you suggested - the only change that happens is horrific. If there is no change (which will be horrific) then there will be no change. That is what it is.

I am correct - you were wrong.

You're welcome I put that in quotes so you'd see your error.

Your welcome...

And you were wrong as I providded links showing that those were not mutations, but the turning on and off of preexisting DNA sequences...

As you say in this post – You’ve said it at LEAST TWICE (funny how you don’t remember posting this ridiculousness after you expressed it so many times)

http://www.politicalforum.com/3695440-post1112.html
It might mutate again. The original mutation was probably a result of an error in replication. As I have said at least twice now, a silent/neutral mutation may not be phased out. They may build up and then finally be expressed as a substantial physical change. If that change is beneficial, then it will persist. If it's harmful, then it will eventually go away.

Now look on the previous page at the part I quoted… That’s two examples of you suggesting that unfinished mutations lay dormant and stack on top of each other and then when the bat wings are complete these “whole” complex features appear…

 

If I was an actual biologist I would look at that and say it’s crap!

What ancestor did the noncoding DNA come from? Or are they just saying that so the Sheep of Darwin’s religious flock has something to hold on to? I think it’s the Darwin Sheep theory…

 

and it usually ends up horrific or nothing happens - it's nulll....

RECAP COMING!!!

 

OH!!!

One last thing... Dealing with DNA sequences... What mutations changes the entire gene sequence?

Example. Tell me a mutation that can change a DNA sequence for hair into a sequence that produces lizard skin or an exoskeleton...

I'll just end this ridiculousness now... I have just today and will be out for a while!

 

First english isn't my first language... I would like to see you post in french...
Second, Yes I saw a bunch of them when I watched the movie: Team America - World Police and other american comedies...

Third, you've never been into any of the meeting where I work so you would be surprised...

Fourth, when are you going to stop thinking how great and superior you are to everybody else without anything to show for it.

Here's a clue DBM: You're a lowly clerk who try to pass himself for something he isn't. You are so ignorant of the subject you try to teach to other that you get pwnd by teenager still in high school!

But we know better DBM. We both know that you are at worst a silly troll and at best a mod sockpuppet, which would explain why you get to keep on starting those silly thread without any warning by them. Hell, you are even worst than the birthers. At least most of them were honest enough to admit they were politically motivated.

And beside, we are still waiting for you to present your own theory about how things became to be what they are now. Then again, that would be the honest thing to do, so I won't hold my breath...

 

Burzmali

A little study to help you out... It includes pictures for better understanding of mutations. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/mutations_03

After reading about mutations, please provide which one can change antennea to eyeballs please...

 

HA!!! I have a Frenchie on my soccer team… Are you French Canadian or from France?

If there is a God… I thank him repeatedly and I pray that one day, if that is what they do, you someday work for people who have college degrees and act in such a manner.

As I have stated SO MANY TIMES. I don’t have a Jesus complex and think I am God’s Gift to the world. I have apologized and admitted that I’ve been wrong on numerous occasions. The sad thing is – the Peanut Gallery that post nothing but crap insults (like your post).

What is pwnd?

Also, I had to wait so I can inform the mods of some of your intelligent postings as always… You’ll be banned soon just like Grasping…

The only thing related to the subject is another theory. If I said Dragons lived under my house but if anyone looked at them other than me – they’d turn invisible and cannot be detected by anything known to man – what theory would you provide that disproves my theory?

Evolution cannot be falsified…

Peanut Gallery – A peanut gallery is an audience that heckles. 2. A group of people whose opinions are considered unimportant.

 

You're trying to backtrack and now claim that you said all mutations were neutral or ended horribly. You didn't. I quoted your post where you plainly said that they all end horribly. Please don't try to project your failings on me. It's plain for everyone to see, with clear links to posts, that you said something blatantly wrong. Again, a mistake that no real biologist would make because it's said many times throughout the classes a biologist takes to earn a degree: most mutations have no effect. Few are harmful and even fewer are beneficial.

Your post here is so confused I can't even respond to the actual content. Now you're saying mutations are always harmful? Can you pick a stance and stick with it, please?

You posted a link to how gene regulation works. The link didn't have anything to do with citrate utiliation in E. coli or nylonase.

Yeah, so highlight in there where I said anything about trees and fur, or rabbit ears, or bat wings. I and others might be able to understand your arguments if you didn't constantly invent things and attribute them to the people you're arguing with.

The process I'm talking about there is one of duplication and divergence. You know that concept mentioned in one of the articles you posted a paragraph from? Try rereading those articles, but google the definitions for the sciency words so you'll have a better chance of understanding them.

 

That's not a study. It's an illustrated definition guide. And see there where it shows what a frameshift mutation is? Notice how the sequence of letters didn't change, contrary to your previous idea of a frameshift mutation? Can you now admit that you don't (or didn't, hopefully that link helped you) understand mutations?

No one would ever try to defend the idea that a single mutation would turn antennae into eyeballs. I certainly have never suggested any such thing. I'm sure you'll simply quote another one of my posts and falsely claim that I did, though.

 

First off – MOST ARE NOT NEURTAL… person of biology… did you pass your classes? AGAIN – WITH WEBSITE:

It is nature’s intention that the exact genetic information from both parents will be seen in the offspring's DNA in the critical stages of fertilization. However, it is possible for this genetic information to mutate, which in most cases, can result in fatal or negative consequences in the outcome of the new organisms.[/I/]

Do you understand that. Do you understand!! Will you remember!!! Do you understand and will you remember!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!! Sheesh… I mean I just posted this like a page ago… and quoted since… and you have to… WILL YOU REMEMBER?!??!

Second – I know… I know… it’s hard to follow along sometimes for you, so I’ll break it down and teach here. We were discussing change in life on this planet (CHANGE- PLEASE REMEMBER THAT) when dealing with complexity. If there is no change in complexity, then it really doesn’t happen now does it? Of course not. If all mutations that causes change in a lifeform end up being horrific then the only change that happens to a lifeform on this planet – that goes through change in complexity is horrific… Does nonchanging circumstances count? Of course not, because the lifeform didn’t change, thus we delete that from the conversation. Now, if you want to just prove your posts aren’t idiotic, of course you’re going to hold on to the insignificant.

But, if you stay on topic, you are wrong. I provided a link and showed you that when dealing with complexity and mutations, the changes that happen (the building up of mutations) end up horrifically. If they don’t show up at all and there is no change, then it doesn’t fall under our discussion now does it? No… it doesn’t…

Please stay on topic in the future, I know it’s hard to call me someone who is ignorant about biology and sit here over and over again prove you wrong about this whole “build-up of mutations” scenario you keep bring up…

Why don’t you go over that again with us please? How does complexity arise in life. How do we go from a fruit fly (less DNA sequences) to us. How do we get “new” DNA sequences and complexity to boot!!??!?!

Duplication and Divergence – really… Please provide a link that duplication (which is point mutation) and divergence leads up to complexity.

DO YOU KNOW HOW FUNNY THIS IS?!??! For one…. Sorry, I can’t hold it.

Definition
noun
A type of mutation in which a portion of a genetic material or a chromosome is duplicated or replicated, resulting in multiple copies of that region.

Supplement
Duplication results from an unequal crossing-over between misaligned homologous chromosomes during meiosis. It may involve a replication of a portion of DNA, or of an entire chromosome.

And here is Divergence

Divergence
1. A moving or spreading apart or in different directions.
2. The spreading of branches of the neuron to form synapses with several other neurons.

There… There’s the definition… Explain away! I’ll be waiting patiently for “this one”!!!! Make it good, haven’t had a good “reading” since Grasping got banned….

 

Yep and I understand no matter what or how you switch those around they will continue to be whatever they started as, but changed.

This if they are a sequence for skin, the skin will never... and I will repeat this so you'll understand NEVER turn into anything else except skin... No exoskeleton... no tree bark... nothing but skin... Now, your skin will probably get "jacked up" if you mess with that sequence, but there is no way on this green earth no matter what mutation you "THINK" can happen to skin, it will stay skin...


FOREVER!!!!

AS I STATED SO FLIPPIN MANY TIMES... (again with the English).... I have quoted you SO MANY TIMES....

You believe that there is a build up of mutations... A BUILD UP!!! Over generations and generations of mutations stacking on top of each other - presto chango (does that sound familiar?) the mutation is complete and trees have fur...

I know all of you reading understand... It's not rocket science - IT'S BIOLOGY FOR FLIPPIN SAKES!!!

 

Check the flag beside my name if you want to know where I'm from...

As for me getting banned, We'll see. I already reported you BTW since calling someone a member of the peanut gallery is a personal attack and that these thread are just a pathetic attempt at flamebaiting.

 

Did you miss the "in the critical stages of fertilization" part again? That's what they're talking about: that one critical point in development in humans. I am, and you were, talking about mutations in general. Again, your other source, which talked about mutations in general, says that most mutations are neutral. Seriously, I'm embarassed for you that you can't seem to read the entirety of your own sources or understand them.

No, we were talking about mutations. Specifically, I was pointing out one of several basic concepts that you don't seem to understand. Mutations in general, you don't understand them.

Go back to that first article: duplication-divergence, retrotransposition, etc. Please, google those terms so you can have at least a superficial understanding of the topics here.

By the way, sorry I missed the nylonase part of your frameshift link, there. I was on a lunch break and skimming. Regardless, you seem to have completely ignored this part of your own source:

"rather a two amino acid substitution in the catalytic cleft of an ancestral esterase amplified Ald-hydrolytic activity."

Do you know what a substitution is? It's a mutation. So thanks for posting a source that confirms nylonase is the result of a mutation. Can we all agree that nylonase is a beneficial mutation now?

Duplication isn't a point mutation. A point mutation is a single change to a nucleotide. A duplication is when an entire sequence of DNA (usually an entire gene) is copied so that there are now two copies of that sequence in the genome. I really appreciate you continuing down this road so that your ignorance is plain for all to see.

Okay, now I'm confused. Why did you just claim that duplication was a point mutation and then give the actual definition of duplication which shows that it isn't a point mutation? Are there two DBM aka FDS personalities in your head? Which one is post now?

Anyway, I've explained this before: gene gets duplicated (now there are two) -> duplicate gene mutates (it's diverging from the original sequence which still exists in the first copy) -> duplicate becomes inactive due to a mutation in the start codon -> mutation occurs over the course of generations -> gene becomes active again due to a mutation that restores the start codon -> new physical trait emerges.

Note I don't say (nor have I ever said) that the physical trait is something as significant as a new limb or organ. It's probably something minor, like a new enzyme that allows the breakdown of a previously unusable chemical like nylon or citrate.

 

In this line of discussion, I'm just pointing out that you don't know basic concepts. For instance, again, mutations. You didn't know what a frameshift mutation was. You don't know what a point mutation is. You posted the definition of duplication mutation, but then need me to explain it to you. By all means, continue to demonstrate your ignorance of the subject.

You've never quoted me saying that a single mutation would change one organ or limb into another. You know why? Because I've never made such a post.

I've never said anything about trees having fur. I have mentioned a build up of genetic mutations that were neutral prior to a gene becoming active again. I've never, ever, ever said that the gene activating would produce a dramatic change like producing tree fur, though. Please learn to have a discussion without making things up.

 

I'm going home and may post tomorrow from the homestead... Haven't decided.

Did run over your post Burzmali, and there are several errors I will enjoy pointing out to you... You have time to correct them...

 

I forgot...

You are the one who can post whatever you want without consequences... I remember when you were calling people idiots and they stated that you had been flagged and that nothing happened...

It's the internet... Like I give a crap... You think you can hurt my feelers? Over the internet?

I know that for some - this is their lives and if it wasn't for this site they'd probably be on medication (if not already), but that's not me kid...

Post away - play WoW and whatever else keeps you in your room or basement. I'm out for three days and going to the beach!

Have fun...

 

finally............ a quality post

 

So, then you didn’t answer the question. How do you explain how complexity comes about? That is the answer you gave us when it was asked before, and obviously it’s not correct per this post. Could you please answer the question?