Explaining the border problem...

There are probably others more knowledgeable than myself about the border issue in this forum. But I have seen that some of those most loudly demanding that the issue be addressed are even less informed. So I'll just make a list of issues that I KNOW they are getting wrong.

1- The MAIN problem at the border is that too many people are applying for asylum. The problem is NOT asylum seekers entering at any point other than a regular point of entry. I'll discuss the reasons later.

2- According to international law as well as according to OUR laws (Title 42), they have a RIGHT to apply for asylum. The right to asylum is a Human Right.

3- Pay attention because this might be the "Aha!" moment to some of you: In order to apply for asylum, Title 42 requires that they be physically present in the United States. They don't have to enter through a regular point of entry. They just need to be present. So when somebody enters the country for the purpose of claiming asylum through a fence or by climbing a wall, or swimming or... any other way, they are NOT breaking the law. They are actually doing what the law REQUIRES them to do.

4- For the above reason, the FIRST thing asylum seekers want as soon as they enter the country, is to FIND a border agent. They aren't running away from them. They are LOOKING for them. Because that's the first step to apply for asylum. And this is what the large majority of them do.

5- In an emergency situation (like Covid) the President has the authority to enact emergency measures. But NOT when there is no emergency situation. That would be illegal.

6- So the REAL problem is that all those people MUST be processed. To process them, they need more personnel, more judges, ... all the things in the Senate bi-partisan bill that the House has rejected. It was rejected BECAUSE Republicans believe it would work, as several of them have said.

7- Walls, patrolling, ... are fine to stop smuggling. But NOT to stop illegal immigration. Successful smugglers don't stay in the U.S. They go back across the border to smuggle some more. It's a waste of money if those things are expected to stop illegal immigrations.

8- Since the House REFUSES to fund the border, authorities are running out of resources to process all these people. They will have NO option but to draw these resources away from other duties. So patrolling is likely one of them. Which will increase smuggling, and other problems at the border.

9- Point 8 means that Republicans will convert a problem into a crisis. Which is what Republicans WANT. Because they think they can blame Biden for it. It's unlikely they will succeed, given the fact that they have come out in public to say that this is their objective. However, the crisis WILL be real.

This is not intended to be a complete description. Just a few bullet points for your consideration relevant to a problem that Republicans DON'T want fixed.

BTW, don't ask me WHAT in the bill will fix X or Y. It doesn't matter. The point is that Republicans BELIEVE that something in the bill fixes X or Y. And that they have publicly stated that, because it will fix those issues, is precisely the reason why they vote against it. According to their own words (which several of us have quoted in other threads) they don't want to hand "a victory" to Biden. "A victory" meaning "solving the border crisis"

 

Thankgod republicans won the house so they can block this terrible border deal.

 

I love how you cleverly slipped in the bill at the end but conveniently pretended the bill is ONLY about the border. Very slick! I am impressed.
I do think the low hanging fruit of them not having accepted that bill should be used by the left (I sure would) but please don't ignore all the other add-ons

 

Totally false.

If you have a legal opinion that it's OK to break the law in order to claim asylum I would love to read about it.

 

This is good! At least ONE poster had their Aha! moment already.

8 U.S. Code § 1158
(a)Authority to apply for asylum
(1)In general
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title...​

BTW... "broke the law"? What law? They would need to be found guilty in a criminal court of having committed a particularly serious crime.

On a sidenote: It's interesting that MAGAs don't accept when we say Trump is a criminal, despite overwhelming evidence. But they are QUICK to call aliens criminals despite NO evidence... and no crime....

 

I pretend NOTHING. I said these are just a list of bulletpoints. The ONLY relevant point in the bill about the border is the part about the border.

So looks like we can agree that the low hanging fruit is that they believe it would work, which would mean a victory for Biden. That is really low hanging, because they SAID so. Publicly! If you want to tell us what the high hanging fruit is, feel free to open a thread. Don't be shy.... And try not to hurt your back by reaching TOO high.

 

This is why i rarely extend olive branches to you people. Instead of accepting it, you try to beat us over the head with it. That's a real crappy way to be IMO

 

Everyone and anyone is asking for "asylum" because the word has gotten around that if you just say that, you will automatically be admitted in.

I strongly suspect the current administration has put officials on the ground to specifically tell these migrants to ask for asylum, after being taken in.
This sort of defeats the whole point of the normal visa/immigration interview, which is designed to be more like an interrogation to uncover the truth and reveal liars than it is to provide help and guidance to the person being interviewed.
(But even if that is not the case, that is neither here nor there. We know there have been progressive activist groups in U.S. who have spread pamphlets in Guatemala and El Salvadore explaining to migrants how to game the system and come as "asylum seekers", and promising them a better life if they do so)

There's also a bit of a compounding feedback effect, because the more migrants there are, the more of a backlog there is in the immigration courts, and the longer the migrants know they will be allowed to stay. The current wait times are well over 4 or 5 years.
You can combine that with sanctuary state policies these days, which didn't exist decades ago, so the migrants know even after that the chance of getting deported is low.

And of course almost none of the migrants are being kept in detention while awaiting their cases, which strongly incentivizes them to come. This is in part due to the backlog of court cases, unfair to have them wait 5 years in detention, part due to compassionate policies of the Biden Administration, and part due to so many migrants that the detention facilities are overcrowded. All three go together, of course.

 

This sounds like a very contorted semantics argument.
Yes, it's technically and theoretically possible to make that argument, but everyone knows it is absurd.

Those persons are obviously trying to get in without being detected or known about, or they don't know about the asylum claim route at the time, and then after being captured you (or they) are trying to claim this was all part of them wanting to legally request asylum?

Because there are a few certain legal advantages to sneaking in undetected rather than making an official asylum request, that sounds like trying to have the best of both worlds.
Under previous administrations I have no doubt that they would be more than extremely skeptical of any asylum claims if the migrant had been caught sneaking in.

 

Ah! Of course! What would MAGAs do without their conspiracy theories.

Because what could win more votes for Biden to create a crisis at the border on election year, right?

I'm glad you said this at the beginning or your post. That way I don't waste my time expecting you to say anything serious.

 

All true, more money is needed. No one disputes that.
But the Democrats only want to provide that funding with a huge cost. Several of the laws would be permanently changed.

This is a topic we've already discussed in several other threads. You can't understand why most Republicans are opposed to this bill until you get into the specifics of the bill and understand what those things are likely to do.

We all know Democrats would be extremely unlikely to approve to any compromise bill written by Republicans, even the more moderate Republicans.

 

It's not absurd. It's the law!

Another poster has their "Aha!" moment.

I have no idea what they know or don't know. Your conspiracy theory is that some hidden government agency is telling them to apply for asylum. Which is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. And unnecessary because there many humanitarian groups that provide food, water and medication to people approaching the border. Any rational person would assume that THEY would also give them useful information. But that would blow your tailor-made conspiracy theory about Biden WANTING a crisis at the border on election year. But then again, thinking through what you write BEFORE you write it is not something MAGAs usually are good at.

I don't know if there are advantages. Especially because then, after crossing, they have to look for border agents so they can start processing their asylum request.

What I do know is that this thread was intended for people like you, who had NO idea what the problem at the border even IS. And are now learning. Won't change the mind of anybody who opposes immigration because they are a just xenophobes, of course. But it will educate them and everybody else a bit.

 

But none of this means we cannot legally make it more difficult to cross the border which would force them to cross at established entry points which would make it much easier to process them.

Walls work.

 

What I think is that most Republicans don't UNDERSTAND the problem at the border. I mean, Republicans in Congress do. And that's why they oppose the bill (because it would address the REAL problems). But most of the base doesn't even know what the law says, and what is actually happening. I'm not saying I know everything. But clearly, in what I do now, there are many things that Republicans here DON'T. And those things are in the OP.

 

The problem is twofold. Democratic policies encourage people to come. Anyone coming here illegally comes here illegally. Anyone coming here illegally should be denied asylum forever.

 

How does the bill address the "get aways"? That is certainly one of the REAL problems because we do not know how many or their intentions.

The border needs some kind of barrier which would prevent get aways from entering the country. We used to call that a wall. However, Texas appears to be doing predominately the same thing with razor wire.

 

I don't get it? What does Title 42 have to do with asylum other than it helped slow the influx during a time of pandemic and disease control?

Expired in May 11/22.

So with the expulsion of the temporary act we once again return to Bidens immigration policy.

So are you saying the now defunct Title 42 is having some effect on the current immigration rules ((Above)) that is clearly not being enforced today?

To apply for Asylum do I have to declare it a border crossing.
Copilot

What's changed other that the Title 42 is no longer an issue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Of course! They come here because this is the best country in the world to live in. Democratic policies are DEFINITELY responsible for that. So... yeah!

They don't come illegally. Please READ.

 

Oops. Used the wrong clipboard. It's 8 U.S. Code § 1158

Nice catch!

 

Lil more to it than that Golem

 

LOL, and it so happens I already found your short version of the right one

 

Short version? I only know one version. The one in the U.S. Code. But... ok.

 

And I'm sure they come here for nefarious reasons too.. Drug trafficking at the top of the list.. There is an old saying "Those dirty A$$holes screw it up for everyone" that's the case with the border! Unless it done orderly then it shouldn't be done EASILY..

The biggest problem I see with the border is not the good people looking for a good life, its the bad people looking to make huge amounts of cash at the expense and death of Americans and those migrants they hold leverage over (Families) in those countries..

As long as we promote and ignore the reality of what's really going on at the southern front, we are all guilty of so many deaths and atrocity's here and to the south

 

"MAGA's!" Heh!

The question I asked was if you had a legal opinion that said it was OK to break the law in order to claim asylum. Your reply quoted the US code that does NOT say you can break the law. It gives a very unusual circumstance "having been interdicted in international or United States waters, " that does not describe what's going on at the southern border.
Aliens can apply for asylum if they are in the country illegally, for example what was meant by asylum law in the first place would be a Soviet citizen in the US for sports or artistic reasons who decides to make a run for it. Entered legally, but stayed past the visa limits, or, as your excerpt shows, a showdown between the US Coast Guard and a Cuban gunboat. Again, this does not describe what's going on at the southern border.

I figured I knew the immigration law on this better than you did, but I thought you might have brought me something new since you seemed SO SURE in your post.
Better luck next time.

 

Not as cut and dried as the part you posted, is it