F-22 (Raptor) attacked a Russian attack aircrafts Su-25

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by st256, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to further explain.

    The US has put a dozen men on the moon, how many has Russia sent there?
    The US has two rovers on Mars and they have operated for years. How many rovers has Russia sent there that didn't turn into scrap metal?
    How many space telescopes has Russia put into space?

    The US has the technology and the ability to send people to the space station but chooses not to at this time. I'm sure Boeing has the tech to build ultralight aircraft, but they choose not to, leaving it instead to other companies. I have not tried to make this a US vs Russia thing and I think I treated Russia fairly, yet you want to make it about us vs them and to boot, just like US lefties, you think having an "education" means your opinion somehow matters more than others and that your "education" equals intelligence and knowledge. Nothing could be further from the truth and your responses are proof of that. As far as Russian tech, there have been times in Soviet times that the USSR has led a field on a temporary basis, but other than making vodka, Russian tech is considered primitive compared to western tech. One of your compadre's sent me some pictures of his apartment complex in Moscow's high tech center. In US standards, it would be considered the projects, I am not impressed. I bet the tech that goes on there is on similar standing.
     
  2. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Neither am I. Defense is fine. The problem is that so much of what the US government has done and still does has nothing to do with actual defense.
     
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  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    There is no "the culture" in America. There are many cultures at work across America and the political culture has remained strongly resistant to genuine progress. And while it's certainly true that counterculture had a profound impact on society and on the Vietnam war, it was ultimately co-opted and sapped of its essence. Virtually all the most important members of the movement were assassinated under dubious circumstances (JFK, RFK, MLK Jr., Malcom X, John Lennon, etc.). And the US government assures us that they were all the victim of some lone nut with no connection to anyone. Just a random fluctuation in the matrix that happened to all the most important counterculture leaders. Now go back to watching football and waving your little flags around and don't ask anymore awkward questions about who really runs the show around here.

    A guy who spent his entire career in the military-industrial complex doesn't think the military-industrial complex is so bad? I'm shocked.

    Anyway, the author seems to think that putting the word "only" before a figure actually lessens the importance of the figure. But "only" 1% of the US economy represents a gigantic amount of wealth. If a relatively small amount of people could pocket the value of US military spending, they'd be disgustingly rich. And it just so happens that the people who are top executives and shareholders within that sector of the economy are disgustingly rich. The author also makes the mistake of only including the value of direct military expenditures and doesn't consider indirect forms of war profiteering like trading in government bonds. The fact that the US government is constantly at war despite many of the wars being needless and/or arcane pretty much proves how immense the military-industrial complex's influence over the political system still is.
     
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  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    So you basically want the US government to become invincible. That is an extremely bad idea on multiple levels.

    As long as we're throwing around totally arbitary ratios, why not a 1,000 to 1 kill ratio?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  5. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Do you have some kind of crystal ball that allows you to predict the future?

    The US government has been waging wars abroad almost nonstop since 1898. The US government has covertly overthrown several dozen governments THAT WE KNOW OF since the 1940's. For this organization to criticize Russia for trying to "assert influence" over other countries is probably the most ironic thing ever. My goodness.

    The Russians agreed to end the cold war so long as NATO did not expand towards the Russian border. NATO broke its promise. They have been expanding steadily towards Russia since the 1990's. This represents clear aggression and bad faith on the part of NATO. And just recently, the CIA, operating under the auspices of the State Department's "democracy" crusading, helped actual fascists overthrow the democratically elected president of Ukraine in an attempt to install an anti-Russian regime right on Russia's border. The only people who do not see this are people living in America. Everyone else in the world knows that the US government is the aggressor.

    That's a very comforting refrain: We got problems, but they ain't so bad.

    That's much easier to accept than: We got profound problems that we are barely cognizant of.
     
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  6. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Disagreed, but thanks for clarifying your views on America.
     
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  7. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for the Russian propaganda, but the Soviet Union, like all Totalitarian Socialist countries, imploded. They collapsed from their own failures. There was no agreement that they'd collapse on conditions of NATO, tovarish.
     
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  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I would like 1000 to one because I want to see America win with the fewest deaths of our soldiers possible

    But you seem to want America to be weak instead
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    My problem with some people who want to cut defense spending is they assume we're spending too much and don't consider the impact of the suggested cuts.
     
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  10. Montecresto

    Montecresto Banned

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    The concept of permanent war economy originated in 1944 with an article by Ed Sard (alias Frank Demby, Walter S. Oakes and T.N. Vance), a Third Camp Socialist, who predicted a post-war arms race. He argued at the time that the United States would retain the character of a war economy; even in peacetime, US military expenditure would remain large, reducing the percentage of unemployed compared to the 1930s. He extended this analysis in 1950 and 1951.[1]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_war_economy
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think either country would start a nuclear war that could easily kill most of the people on the earth over Syria?
    Sounds like "alternate facts." That we've behaved badly is irrelevant to Russia's behavior. Ask the peoples of Eastern Europe if they want the Russians back in their country.
    Everyone? How about the other NATO countries? They've been happy to admit new members and the people in the new NATO countries seem happy enough to join. Maybe those countries want protection from Russia.
    What's your plan? Revolution? Are you an Antifa type?
     
  12. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. There are no articles in Russian therefore I put them randomly :) I can't understand what they are.
    Like in Athens for gentlemen only? Slaves and women are excluded. :)
    Buy the way, why do you want majority would have right to elect? Majority is this
    [​IMG]
    Do we elect pilots for air companies? No. There is other procedure for their selection.We afraid for our lives. Why don't we afraid for our lives when we elect politicians? I believe they are more dangerous than pilots.
    Oh, sir! You don't know Russian "gentlemen" in that area :(
     
  13. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I don't allow :)
    Guy we have absolutely different levels of education. You can't argue. You pass all my arguments and post yours that can't be discussed without laughing.
    But OK, lets try. What are you writing?
    Who said that? This dude?
    [​IMG]
    I would not trust him :)
    It was too easy for Russians. They sent apparatus to Venus. In 1982. Did you see, how Venus looks?
    [​IMG]
    For whom it is interesting? How many orbital space stations with pilots did the USA launch? :)
    I don't know, but more than the USA has. You can't without our tech to fly in space. We can without yours.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  14. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Technically SU-35 doesn't joke.

    Personally I prefer it to F22 Raptor. From a mere perspective of design ... there's no match: Russian fighters are absolutely more stylish than the American ones.

    This said, keeping it technical for real, it's all to be demonstrated that F22 stealth features can cover the gap about mobility and dog fight capabilities [F22 is not that great in a dog fight, at least as for I know].

    I confess I'm a lover of Russian fighters ... even if I'm a loyal "believer" of NATO faith!
     
  15. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

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    Questo è un italiano vero. Gli italiani hanno benissimo senso di stile :)
     
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  16. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a part your Italian [which sounds odd], Russian engineers have been projecting and producing the best fighters ever since they produced Mig 29 [which is still an object of cult ...].
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  17. st256

    st256 Well-Known Member

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    What do you think about Su-27? Mig-29 is a light fighter. It is exported to poor countries usually. Su-27 is a heavy fighter. It is more expensive.
     
  18. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    I was making reference to an old model as the first one of a series of Russian fighters with remarkable aerodynamic features.

    The Mig-35 [which is an evolution of Mig-29 and which is going to enter in service soon] is just the "successor" in that line.

    Sukhoi is more pure in its aerodynamic choices. The entire line [from the 27 on] is exceptional. May be we can leave a part the SU-32, but it's a different plane [it's a bomber], anyway it follows the SU line.
     
  19. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    You keep forgetting, education does not equal intelligence or knowledge. You don't even know what education I have. I thought about giving Russia credit for a probe to Venus that lasted what, a minute or two? But, that was the USSR, not Russia. Ignoring facts doesn't make you smart, it shows ignorance. The US will soon stop using Russian means to get into space and this year will be getting there with new spacecraft. https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/crew/index.html
     
  20. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forza la Russia!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  21. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Actually not, but then you already knew this was not the case so why pose the question?
    [/QUOTE]

    You might consider adapting your technique to suit the nationality of different posters.

    Instead of this:

    [​IMG]

    Try something like this:



    Anyway, I wonder if you'd actually care to answer a question rather than always asking them?

    Where do you stand?

    What form of government works for you? Being ruled by a Tsar? Being ruled by an owned politician? Being ruled by a military and intelligence junta? Being ruled by an oligarchy? Another?

    Or would you consider trying the one thing that is supposed to be in situ in many nations but which none of us have never actually ever seen - a true democracy?
     
  22. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, I did business with Soviet era bankers in London and Switzerland.
     
  23. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    But Russia won't be present to next Winter Olympics ...
     
  24. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Peccato!
     
  25. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Friday evening in Essex? I am judging it on its fine pitch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018

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