It is illegal for invasive research to be carried out on a pregnant woman or the fetus, and it would require invasive research to ascertain if fetal pain exists or not.
Now Fugazi is trying to convince us that heart attacks are painless. Pathetic. Quote: Common heart attack signs and symptoms include: Pressure, tightness, pain, or a squeezing or aching sensation in your chest or arms that may spread to your neck, jaw or back Link: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-attack/basics/symptoms/CON-20019520
The Chinese government still tells the Chinese people how many kids they can have. We should of course focus on the actions of government officials rather than some nice words written on a paper in Beijing.
Nope, just posting the actual medical research, but don't let the facts get in the way of your dogma. Here they are again in case you missed them - "Please do some actual research, a lethal heart attack is painless as the irregularity of the heart's rhythm (ventricular fibrillation), causes immediate unconsciousness, add to that-that the fetus is also naturally sedated, so no there is no "pain"." Do you know the difference between a fatal and non-fatal heart attack .. apparently not. A fatal heart attack kills instantly .. hence the term FATAL, what you have cited above is not a fatal heart attack. Add to that-that you completely ignored that the fetus is naturally sedated in the womb .. but hey that was no surprise. NB: I must correct myself, because the correct term is not fatal heart attack but SCD (sudden cardiac death)
yes they are, something I personally do not support (even though you have accused me of doing so despite the numerous times I have stated I do not), and yes again we should look at the actions of the government to see if they abide by the changes. None of this, of course, means anything to your erroneous assertion of Obama etc supporting forced abortion in China.
Quote: Dr. Norig Ellison, president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, said that regional (local) anesthesia has no effect on the fetus. Some general anesthetics reach the fetus in levels less than in the mother, but they do the baby no harm-- and indeed, they "will provide no-to-little analgesia [protection from pain] to the fetus," Dr. Ellison said. Link: www.nrlc.org/uploads/fetalpain/Anesthesia Myth Memo.pdf
Looks like you are unable to process the information I posted. Could this be because you are an obsessive fanatic and an extremist? Obama funds the UNFPA which supports the one baby policy, forced abortion, and forced sterilization. Western elite liberals/the pro-abortion movement are not pro-choice! http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/18/family-planning-funding-spotlights-china/ http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1417 https://www.pop.org/content/full-report-on-unfpas-involvement-in-china Do you condemn President Obama and the United Nations Population Fund for their anti-choice agenda?
Nah your immature and ignorant comments are far funnier. Nope not a lie ... reality, you should try it sometime.
Liars seem to gravitate to the pro-abortion movement. Not surprising, the pro-abortion movement was based on lies from the beginning: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2011/02/2806/
I am saying there is no conclusive research that says the foetus feels pain or not, what, by far, the majority of possible evidence shows is that it does not.
I amended much comment to correct a mistake I made, fatal heart attack is not the correct definition to use it should have been SCD - sudden cardiac death, which is what occurs when the foetus is injected and which has no pain or suffering to the foetus. Why are you ignoring that the foetus is in a sedated state in the womb?
So even a pro-abortion fanatic like Fugazi, who devotes himself obsessively to the interests of the abortion industry, can't find any conclusive research proving a 20 month old unborn baby can't feel pain. - - - Updated - - - I keep posting information but you seem to have trouble processing it: I posted this already: Quote: Dr. Norig Ellison, president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, said that regional (local) anesthesia has no effect on the fetus. Some general anesthetics reach the fetus in levels less than in the mother, but they do the baby no harm-- and indeed, they "will provide no-to-little analgesia [protection from pain] to the fetus," Dr. Ellison said. Link: www.nrlc.org/uploads/fetalpain/Anesthesia Myth Memo.pdf
I processed the information very well and as usual it is nothing but a guilt association fallacy, please DO show me anywhere in the UNFPA manifest it states they support forced abortion. In fact even a fact finding mission ordered by Bush in 2002 could find "no evidence that UNFPA has supported or participated in the management of a programme of coercive abortion or involuntary sterilization in China. I'm sorry the reality does not fit your fantasy.
You can attempt to bait me as much as you like it won't work, I just find it pathetic that pro-lifers can never engage in an adult debate and I have NEVER stated that there is conclusive research either way as far as foetal pain is concerned, the reality is that by far the research available says foetal pain does not happen. You say i have trouble processing, please show me anywhere I say that ARTIFICIALLY introduced anaesthetic is involved, do you know what NATURALLY means ... obviously not by your comment. The fetus is actively sedated by the low oxygen pressure (equivalent to that at the top of Mount Everest), the warm and cushioned uterine environment and a range of neuroinhibitory and sleep-inducing substances produced by the placenta and the fetus itself: adenosine; two steroidal anesthetics, allopregnanolone and pregnanolone; one potent hormone, prostaglandin D2; and others. Artificially introduced anaesthetic is irrelevant to my comment.
Well yes actually we do, an injection directly into the heart of the foetus with Digoxin causes instant unconsciousness add this to the already natural sedated state of the foetus and there simply is no pain, assuming the foetus can feel pain anyway. Did you forget I already posted the information? Just case you did here it is again , a lethal heart attack is painless as the irregularity of the heart's rhythm (ventricular fibrillation), causes immediate unconsciousness, add to that-that the fetus is also naturally sedated, so no there is no "pain" post #316 from a pro-life source no less.
Again you seem to think some nice words on some papers in New York matter more than the actual behavior of the UNFPA. I know killing off the untermenschen is important to you, but try to retain at least some credibility. Hardly surprising. This three man team spent two weeks looking for coercive abortion in a country with a billion+ population. Here is what the team did find: The team found no evidence that UNFPA has "knowingly supported or participated in the management of a program of coercive abortion or involuntary sterilization in the PRC." The team found that, notwithstanding some relaxation in the 32 counties in which UNFPA is involved, the population programs of the PRC "retain coercive elements in law and in practice." The team noted a system of extremely high fines and penalties imposed on families that exceed the number of children per family approved by the government. In this connection, even if UNFPA did not "knowingly" support or participate in such a program, that does not mean that the Kemp-Kasten restriction would not be triggered, since that restriction does not rest on a finding of legal intent to fund the coercive program. The restriction is triggered if the recipient "supports or participates in the management or a program of coercive abortion" (or involuntary sterilization). The team’s finding that China’s population practices retain coercive elements in law and in practice is consistent with other information available to the Department, such as materials and briefings supplied by UNFPA, Chinese law, and the State Department’s annual human rights reports. The PRC has a longstanding and draconian program of controlling birth rates, including imposing crushing fines on parents who deviate from the number of children viewed as appropriate by the State. A "program of coercive abortion" includes penalties charged by governmental authorities under color of law that have the purpose or effect of forcing mothers to have abortions to avoid the penalties. Link: http://2001-2009.state.gov/g/prm/rls/12128.htm More facts to consider: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...xpayers-funding-forced-sterilization-in-india Western elite liberals/the pro-abortion movement are not pro-choice! They fund coercive programs. They strip women of basic rights. Do you condemn President Obama and the United Nations Population Fund for their anti-choice agenda?
No surprises that you cherry pick my comment to suit, why don't you look up what allopregnanolone, pregnanolone and adenosine are. Sedation lowers the ability to feel pain that is of course assuming the foetus can even feel pain at all.
You indulge in Godwins law and then accuse me of no credibility the irony and hypocrisy you indulge in is outstanding. When you can show me that the UNFPA is actively involved with forced abortion in China you might have a point, until then all you are doing is using a guilty by association fallacy and conspiracy theory. I see your confirmation bias is highly active. I'm not going to condemn anyone based on your opinion.
I don't indulge in simplistic answers, I leave that to those with no intellectual ability to research. And as I have already corrected my mistake about it not being a lethal heart attack but a SCD then your question is moot.
