If there is any chance unborn babies feel pain, shouldn't we protect them from the abortion industry? We protect animals and older children from mistreatment, why don't we protect these small vulnerable humans? Science Supports Pain-Capability of Unborn by 20 Weeks FETAL PAIN: THE EVIDENCE Assessing Fetal Pain: A Response
Restrict the abortion industry and save vulnerable human lives: Peer-reviewed studies find state pro-life laws reduce abortion rates
There is absolutely no creditable research that shows the unborn can feel or experience pain before the third trimester, the wiring simply does not exist. What people do not understand is that pain is more than just a physical reaction to stimuli, there is a psychological element as well As to your links, The Charlotte Lozier Institute is a pro-life site, the second one shows a list of quotes that have mostly been refuted, your third link cites Dr. Kanwaljeet S. Anand whose so called research has been thoroughly refuted. there are plenty of threads here that have debated the fallacy of fetal pain, it might be worth your while in reading them.
This of course is a load of propaganda, abortion rates were dropping well before the increase in pro-life restrictions were enacted. Abortions rate drops have been following a downward trend since 1991, if abortion restrictions had made any kind of impact over that downward trend the reduction should be far greater. In fact there has only been a 2.6% decrease overall since 2009 which is when the majority of pro-life restrictions came into force.
Looks like you are hostile to scientific findings that fails to buttress your ideology. Quote from the FRC report: However, a mature cerebral cortex is not necessary in order for the unborn child to feel pain, as evidenced by scientific studies and observations that both children and adults who are born with no or minimal cerebral cortex, do in fact still perceive pain. So they are wrong because they don't share your ideology?! Don't be so closed-minded. Or maybe you have trouble accepting evidence that doesn't suit you.
You, of course, don't have a leg to stand on. The elite media, which produces most of the propaganda, is strongly pro-abortion. Actually as Michael New points out: U.S. state legislators enacted a considerable amount of anti-abortion legislation during the 1990s. For instance: • In 1992, virtually no states had informed consent laws.3 By 2005, thirty-three states had informed consent laws in effect (National Abortion Rights Action League [NARAL] 1992, 2005). • In 1992, no states had waiting periods. By 2005, twenty-two states required women to wait a specified period before obtaining an abortion (NARAL 1992, 2005). • In 1992, only twenty states were enforcing parental involvement laws. By 2005, thirty-four states were enforcing these laws (NARAL 1992, 2005). You seem desperate to defend those who would torture to death helpless small humans:
Only a racist could love the abortion industry: 79% of Planned Parenthood Abortion Clinics Target Blacks, Hispanics
Please DO show proof that these women were FORCED to get abortions...you can't so it's the end of your race baiting... And in anticipation of the ignorant claim that Sanger was a racist, no, she wasn't and none of the out of context and out right faked "quotes" can prove she was and she has been dead for a long time and PP has nothing to do with her now anyway...do a search here for Sanger and you'll see how the ignorant race baiters were put firmly in their place...
You seem so desperate, not having any solid facts or decent argument, that you have to lie and get all emotional with your ridiculous "torture to death helpless small humans"....really, do you write sentimental glop for greeting cards, too?
Economic pressure & lies are employed by racists & the abortion industry. Misinformation and Manipulation at Planned Parenthood You didn't think the abortion industry was really about choice did you? That's just an advertising slogan to fool the dopes.
Is the picture inaccurate? Which word is inappropriate: torture? death? humans? I have provided evidence in the studies I linked to above. The plain facts of abortion are horrible enough, no need for melodrama.
Incorrect. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=201429 BTW, there are no laws against getting an abortion for an animal. It's not an uncommon occurence. - - - Updated - - - I am so glad I live in a free country where doctors, not the govt, practice medicine! - - - Updated - - - Only a misogynist could be for forcing women to gestate and give birth against their will.
(The Khmer Rouge was extremely reactionary and far from communist, but that's beside the point.) I do care about human suffering (when the humans in question aren't Esers, of course), I just don't see how whether a foetus can feel pain or not is relevant to an abortion discussion. The potential pain of a foetus does not warrant state violence against a woman in order to force her to give birth.
right back at you, though having spent a number of years researching many aspects of the abortion debate including fetal pain from both sides and from unbiased research the consensus amongst scientists is that fetal pain is nothing more than a myth being pushed by pro-lifers. The family research council is a religious based organization as can be seen from their mission statement. Family Research Council's mission is to advance faith, family and freedom in public policy and the culture from a Christian worldview. Pretty much all of the FRC report is refuted here - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/ Nothing to do with ideology, the reality is the facts do not fit their ideology. Most of their research has been found to be unsafe. I have no issue with accepting evidence when it has been peer reviewed and accepted as correct, Dr. Annad's work has been thoroughly refuted and he is not even an expert in the relative field, he specializes in paediatrics. Dr. Annad does not even state that fetuses can fell pain, his exact words were "If the fetus is beyond 20 weeks of gestation, I would assume that there will be pain caused to the fetus. And I believe it will be severe and excruciating pain.", nothing in that statement reflects anything other than the Dr's opinion. A comprehensive peer reviewed study on the evidence of fetal pain was conducted in 2005 and it's conclusion can be found here - http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=201429# as is plain to see the conclusion is that fetal pain is pretty much a myth. further studies were conducted in 2010 by Britain's Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and there findings were endorsed in 2012 by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists which was that fetal pain has no evidence to support it.
Cop out, you have no real evidence and as such must drag the gutter to try and make some sort of point. Thank you confirming what I stated, I suggest you read what is written and not what you want to see. the fact remains that it was not until 2009 that the majority of pro-life TRAP laws were enforced .. do you know what majority means, it does not mean that NO restrictions were enforced prior to that time. One of the biggest factors in the drop in teenage abortions was the decline in the number of teenage pregnancies. nothing to do with the restrictions you have cited, Researchers have analyzed the data over the last several decades, and they have concluded that the declines can primarilyalthough not exclusivelybe attributed to improvements in teens contraceptive use. Nothing desperate about reporting the facts, though your appeal to emotion picture surely reeks of desperation.
Yet again more refuted propaganda - http://www.guttmacher.org/media/evidencecheck/2011/01/19/Guttmacher-Advisory.pdf
I disagree. Quote: Anand, 2007, p.82, col.2, para.1, “A reappraisal of the mechanisms of human consciousness, differentiating it from its attributes, functions, or contents, is long overdue. Widely held concepts about the key mechanisms of consciousness, or its fullest expression via the human brain, have not been reexamined in the light of accumulating evidence since the 1970’s. Merker presents the organization of a subcortical system…with multiple lines of anatomical, neurophysiological, behavioral, clinical, and neuropathological evidence, and a teleological rationale – all of which support a persuasive argument for the subcortical control and temporal sequencing of behavior.… One distressing impact of associating consciousness with cortical function, briefly mentioned by Merker in section 6 of the target article, pertains to the mistaken notions regarding pain perception in patient populations with impaired cortical function or cortical immaturity.” If there is even a chance these unborn babies feel pain should we kill them in such a gruesome way? Do you really feel those with impaired cortical function should have no rights? But there are laws against cruelty to animals. Do you support such laws? Wouldn't you like to live in a country that protects vulnerable human life? You know the U.S. has some of the most extreme pro-abortion laws in the world: America’s abortion allies: North Korea, China, Vietnam And the pro-abortion fanatics don't value freedom: “Pro-Choice” Web Site Argues Pro-Life Doctors Should be Forced to Do Abortions Is giving birth really so terrible? And the abortion industry constitutes the greatest threat to the female gender in human history! 160 Million and Counting
Oh dear not the heavily edited videos again. Liar Rose has been proven to be as dishonest as they come - http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2011/02/08/give-lila-roses-dishonesty-mainstream-media-attention/ - - - Updated - - - Yet another thread rehashing old topics that have been blown to pieces numerous times.
I like how you didn't deign to address my actual point. I don't support Mao's policies in the slightest or think that the revolution - or, should I say, the coup - in China was genuinely proletarian in the slightest. As for Lenin, I think hanging may have been a bit much, but what was he supposed to do with the kulaki and the White scum - let them stage a counterrevolution? Of course, the ridiculous NEP ended up creating more people who were in effect kulaki later on, but obviously Lenin didn't get everything right.
I am not the one that wants to justify laws forcing people to have their orifices violated on the basis of fallacious nonsense arguments. That wold be you
I have a feeling you've written a very detailed manifesto supported by piles of "evidence" you keep locked in an underground bunker. Is this one of those mythical consensuses that just happens to serve the interests of the rich and powerful? What, they disagree with your tiresome anti-religious notions! They must be wrong! Pretty much all of your article is refuted here - http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/fetal-pain-the-evidence/9-documentation/#.VpwDJaQo5jo And here is Derbyshire, the author you rely on: Although there is a general consensus that certain cortical structures are necessary for pain, legitimate arguments that cortical structures are not necessary continue to be raised. At what point do you offer unborn babies protection from the abortion industry? After how many months of life? Why is this researcher wrong: Van Scheltema, 2008, p.313, para.1, “Others however, argue that thalamocortical connections are not a necessary criterion for (fetal) pain perception as clinical data show that ablation or stimulation of the thalamus alone is sufficient to alter pain perception in adults. Evidence? About Dr. Anand: He completed post-doctoral fellowship in Anesthesiology at Harvard Medical School, followed by Pediatric Residency training at Boston Children’s Hospital and Pediatric Critical Care Fellowship training at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Anand has received numerous awards for his research, and was recently awarded the 2009 Nils Rosén von Rosenstein Medal from the Swedish Academy of Medicine and Swedish Pediatric Society (the highest international award given to pediatricians every 5 years). So I'm guessing he is a bit more qualified than you. Actually here's Anand: “Multiple lines of evidence thus corroborate that the key mechanisms of consciousness or conscious sensory perception are not dependent on cortical activity:” And he is not the only researcher of this opinion. Serious problems with that study: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-08-24-fetal-pain-bias_x.htm This may only represent the opinion of PC bureaucrats. I read the ACOG statement and the only study they refer to directly is the biased study I just referred to authored by pro-abortion activists!
You failed to show proof that these women were FORCED to get abortions.... Abortion didn't create poverty....
Yes, your emotional "picture" is inaccurate.... no human is tortured to death. The fetus is killed. But don't let grown up scientific facts get in your way
